AITA for getting a teacher fired when she wouldn’t let my daughter eat in class?
By - Whole_Pattern_5589
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may have been TA for costing this woman her entire job over something that could probably have been better solved.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. A 504 is a legally binding agreement that the school HAS to follow. The teacher was actually probably fired because she didn't follow the 504, and the school could get into trouble for that.
ADA is the american disabilities association, so I believe it would be an ADA violation to deny my daughter an accommodation that she needs.
Edit: thank you for correcting me, it’s actually the Americans with Disabilities Act.
504 refers to section 504 of the Americans with Disabilities Act, so essentially you are both correct.
[Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_504_of_the_Rehabilitation_Act)
Wow, that was an exciting ride!
Saved me a new web page for the Googler. Thanks!
People fought damn hard for that section of the law, too. It’s not to be fucked around with. Shame on that teacher. I’m a teacher and I can understand if it’s the beginning of the year and you haven’t memorized 35 504 plans and IEP’s yet, but a) it takes a couple minutes to look up a kid’s 504, and b) OP already told her once.
Its not just passing out. She couldve gone into a diabetic coma, her organs could've started failing and it could've lead to her death. She didn't get fired over stupid snacks, she got fired because her arrogance nearly killed your daughter.
I'd think it would be common sense for the school to inform teachers of any accommodations that students in their classes need. Either the school fucked up or she didn't bother remembering, but we certainly shouldn't be expecting underage kids to inform their teacher about their accommodations
Well, this lady had plenty of warning. When the parent contacted her after the first incident, the teacher should have sought out and read the 504 and if she had any questions should have asked the parent or the admin about it. The 504 is a legal document and can’t be ignored.
For context: I have a 504 and have for over six years. Teachers are alerted at the beginning of the year of every student they will have who has a 504. There is no way she did not know, unless the school messed up. This teacher likely saw it and pushed it aside, thinking it was simply a "mental health thing" (I've had teachers who did not read mine because of this issue, as they also had a list of my psychological problems to let them help understand how to handle me in case I have episodes) and did not see it as something important enough to read, especially given with how she responded to it being a "stupid snack." OP, you're far from TA. The teacher is absolutely TA who deserved to be fired. I'd even go as far to say that the teacher deserves to be fined as well, for breaking a law of the ADA. I hope this teacher never treats a disabled student like this again.
Did your school put a limit on how many times people could go to the bathroom in class per ***semester?***
Wow that's strict. At my schools in New Zealand you just had to ask and you could go, if you didn't come back you were disciplined with after school detention. Certainly not grades being penalised for using the bathroom!
I know right, Americans seem to love authority.
I’m studying to be a teacher and we have talked about the reasons for 504’s and consequences for not following them on three separate occasions in my Intro to Special Ed class so far and we’re not even at midterms yet.
I’m not a teacher, but surely it’s common sense that not following specific requirements for students could lead to them getting ill?
Best case scenario, teacher was just on a power trip. Completely deserved to be fired, and the fact she blamed OP and learned nothing proves it.
I think stef_me's point is that the importance is repeated over and over in their teaching courses so that teacher was incredibly negligent to just ignore the child's 504. (Obviously.)
Even if it was neither, the teacher obviously hasn't taken a moment to assess the situation properly, or taken the time to learn from the first incident. The school is doing what they should, and only covering their own backside instead of risking her doing it again, can't blame them for that. A teacher that doesn't learn, the irony. All her own fault.
OP, think about it this way - if she was willing to shrug off your daughter's life endangering medical condition as her being "entitled," what else is she doing? What other ways was she bulling kids, kids who might not have had someone who could speak up for them? When would it have ended? When your daughter passed out and caved in her head by slamming it on the edge of a desk? When another child died? When a child failed out of school because she refused to follow their learning accommodations and they killed themselves?
These are all too real possibilities for the future, had her behavior not been nipped in the ass and forced to stop.
You stood up for your child and made sure someone who should *not* have been allowed access to children and power over them was removed from the system. You did good. NTA.
Yeah I’m sure either it wasn’t a one off with OP’s kid. Or it was and the teacher was being super super obstinate about it with the meeting with the professor. Either way, she was putting a (or multiple) kid’s health at risk and therefore shouldn’t be allowed to be in charge of them.
Yeah, OP definitely did not "get this teacher fired." The teacher got herself fired. Schools typically won't fire teachers on the whim of some parent without a verifiable reason behind it. Teacher only has herself to blame here.
I'd also be pretty surprised if it was just these two incidents that got the teacher fired since typically places want at least a paper trail of official warnings before getting to the "you're out of here" stage. Like you said, she probably either pushed back in the meeting with the principal or has done this before.
Op you are absolutely NTA and good on you for sticking up for your kid.
Also, no one should be teaching kids who thinks a child with an illness or disability is an "entitled brat". Get some perspective, lady.
Yeah I'm sitting here wondering personally how she must have treated the OCD, Autistic, ADHD kids in her class...
T1D isn't exactly a visible disability but I feel like it's a lot more obvious than the above so then logically you have to wonder!
And like T1D is a very common/well known disease. It's not as if it's some rare genetic condition that very few people know about.
I rarely would ever tell my kid to ignore a teacher's orders, but my list is:
1.about to throw up
2.teacher not letting you use the bathroom and it's an emergency
3. making sure they don't die (applicable here)
4. Teacher being abusive
That teacher clearly has never read or watched *The Baby-Sitters Club.*
Damn I just got thrown back to my childhood. I loved that series. It was Stacey if iirc that had T1D.
Seriously! If she's saying stuff like that about a kid having an illness, she's very likely also one of those people who think allergies or intolerances are fake and ends up trying to expose kids to their allergens.
Essentially she shouldn't be around kids. Or really any other position that puts her in charge of people cuz lord knows I wouldn't want her as my boss.
This! And it is sadly all too common. Because of deteriorating eyesight, my opthamologist had me wear gas permeable contact lenses to try and reshape the cornea. My 7th grade science teacher told my parents she didn't think I'd do well in her glass, because the lenses proved I was "vain." And then proceeded to mark me down whenever she could.
Duh didn't you know that to be good at science you have to wear glasses /s
Damn right about the teacher getting herself fired. Stupidity, ignorance, arrogance and indifference are not qualities you want in the classroom - especially when it is the teacher.
In retrospect the perfect response to the AH teacher's comment in public would've been something like *"Yeah, my daughter is entitled - entitled not to die at school because of your incompetence"*
1000% NTA OP
"yes, I am raising her, no thanks to you trying to let her die"
I'm a special education teacher at the middle school level, and I can only imagine what this teacher was doing/not doing if she is unwilling to make such a basic accommodation as letting a student discreetly eat a snack in class to prevent a medical emergency. It's unfortunately much more common than people realize. I've encountered too many teachers who act like letting a student use the bathroom more frequently/eat in class/take extra time for assignments or tests/whatever documented accommodation/etc. are being undermined in their authority and ability to implement their own classroom management style. It's beyond frustrating, and eats up waaaaaay too much of my already stretched thin time and resources to deal with. And I always end up with the (rightfully so) angry emails/phone calls when parents discover that their children's legal accommodations under an IEP/504/BIP aren't being enforced and honored.
I’m a university professor and some of my colleagues are like this. Teachers/profs need to get the fuck over themselves. I had a colleague who didn’t allow students to go to the bathroom! He was rightfully corrected by admin. Like you’re going to let someone shit their pants because it distracts you as a prof? Do your job better.
The best part of college was not having to ask permission to go to the damn washroom! I'd raise such a fuss if a professor tried that with me.
That is insane! I sincerely hope it wasn't just your school she no longer worked at.
This Is so upsetting it makes me want to vomit. That sub created a more highly traumatic event with their actions and inaction. Thank god the kids had sense and determination.
I hope she got arrested and charged with attempted manslaughter. Because that's what that was.
Yeah just imagine. If this teacher was capable of ignoring the needs of one person that can pass out or worse, and there is even a contract, that should at least scare her... What would she do in other situations? With the "entitled brats" that have dyslexia or ADHD? She is a bully in disguise.
> in disguise
The teacher is the one who got herself fired over "some stupid snacks." What was the big deal about letting *someone with diabetes and hypoglycemia* eat something *so they don't pass out?* She made the snacks about a power play, *and she misrepresented the daughter's medical condition as "entitlement."*
Nipped in the ass? The original is “nipped in the bud”, not “nipped in the butt”.
The problem here is, it hasn't been nipped in the bud. The teacher obviously still thinks she was in the right. OP should actually report their encounter to the educational authorities in her area so they know never to hire her again.
Not to mention she was literally endangering your child. *Keeping the kids alive* is like the lowest of baseline requirement for a school and its teachers. If she can't even do that, she is failing miserably at her job.
This!!!!! She could literally cause harm or even death by ignoring her legal obligation for this and other ADA requests. It's not about entitlement - other than HERS in thinking that she knows more than medical professionals. It wasn't safe for your child or others. It was a hard lesson she needed to learn *but clearly hasn't*. Yikes. Hope the school is brutally honest when her references get checked in the future. NTA.
I’m a type 2 diabetic and almost died one morning while I was 3 months pregnant with my now-tween son. I was almost unconscious when my husband found me on the living room floor. He was able to shake me back to attention and get glucose syrup in me in time. A few more minutes and I would have been unconscious- he would have had to use a glucagon shot and call paramedics.
Pregnancy can make your blood sugar unpredictable. You know what else does? Puberty. OP’s daughter’s endocrine system puts out massive amounts of hormones during her teenage years, and hormones affect how your body manages your blood sugar.
**OP’s daughter could have passed out and I guarantee you that teacher would have called it “disruptive” or attention seeking” and would have ignored her until the seizures started.**
That is not a person I want teaching MY kid.
I agree with your username 😂😊 and yeah idk what this teacher was thinking. She put that child through a dangerous situation twice and could have gotten her killed. Quite literally.
I work for a K-12. 504 plans are taken very seriously by school districts. There's a significant body of law and administrative rules governing them. There's auditing and documentation and they're reviewed at multiple levels every year. It's a formal, explicit acknowledgement of a recognized disability and of the agreed upon steps that the district is required to take to ensure that the student's access to education is fair, non-discriminatory, and that their disability is reasonably accommodated. It ensures the state's obligation to provide the entitlement and protect the students rights. Normally it exists to document and formalize the accommodation for when the parents screw up, but here it does the opposite.
A teacher has *no* authority to deny a disability accommodation provided for in a 504 plan. That teacher was either poorly informed on what they are or is just stupid. They were fired because they exposed the school district to significant liability and exposed your daughter to the risk of harm. If your daughter had suffered any injury, the district would have been taken to the cleaners for it.
Take my free Helpful Award because your reply is informative, and presented in a way that anyone could understand the legal protection offered, and the serious potential liability the teacher exposed the district to.
Admins always try to balance rights of people, but always, always, always come down on the side of not being sued over actions of their employees.
NTA. Glad OP spoke with the principal and that you had recorded the first conversation.
Edit for clarification.
The school would be in so much trouble if your daughter had ended up having a medical emergency as a result of the teacher refusing to follow the legally binding 504.
Basically if the school hadn’t fired her after this they’d be fucked. They had to fire her.
I’m a teacher and I’ve had students with type 1 - our school nurse would have come down like a sledgehammer if anyone denied a student medically necessary treatment!! NTA, and that teacher is lucky she didn’t get sued or charged with child endangerment.
Yes! My mom was a phys Ed teacher and on a day she was out, a type 1 second grader asked the substitute for his juice because he was having low blood sugar, but the sub didn’t understand he was diabetic so dismissed it. Fortunately he went back to his regular class and his classroom teacher sorted it out and he was fine, but it freaked my mom out so much that they completely overhauled the school’s system for informing substitutes about medical needs and accommodations for kids( this was the 90s, there wasn’t a school nurse, and those things weren’t as prioritized as they are now)
Used to sub, I pisses me the fuck off when schools don't give me the 504 info. I've had kids lie to me about 504's, so official school documents are critical for me. I want to make sure kids who need it get what they need, but I need the truth.
"that teacher is lucky she didn’t get sued or charged with child endangerment"
... its never too late for dreams to come true.
My boyfriend is type 1, she could have killed your daughter or left her hospitalized. She 100% needed to be fired, someone who can’t follow a 504 or even understand that diabetics need to eat when their sugar is low should not be working with children.
I’ve had dialysis patients who are diabetic. We monitor their blood sugar levels during treatment because if it dips it’ll be fatal for them. Op, your daughter doesn’t want to eat, she NEEDS to eat. There’s no entitlement here. NTA
My sister is a T1. There's been times when her levels are so low she just wants to sleep; we had to literally pour juice/honey into her mouth to get her back up.
There's no want about it, it's 100% a **medically necessary, lifesaving need**
No entitlement and NTA for OP and her daughter.
Yeah, that's what I mean. A 504 is also legally binding, and lays out the accommodations that need to be followed.
Type 1 here—I (luckily) never had issues with any of my teachers like your daughter, and was fortunate enough that being told and having a doctor’s note was more than good enough. That said, absolutely NTA. Lows can come on quickly and aggressively, and sometimes unnoticed. Your daughter could have *died* over a snack/treatment for a low, especially with hormones in overdrive. You gave the teacher fair warning (I get it; not everyone understands diabetes, but you spoke to her *and* have a legal document in place) and she did it again. *You* didn’t get her fired; her ineptitude and dismissive know-it-all attitude did. My only advice is to talk to your daughter and let her know if it happens again, she needs to just treat the low/eat the snack anyway. She already knows her parents have her back if there’s any fallout, so consequences be damned.
ADA stands for American with Disabilities Act. Its a law that was passed in the 90s.
Yes, but IEPs and 504 plans are legal documents. The school (which includes school staff) can't just break them beacuse they don't feel like following them. This opens the school up to being sued.
Speaking as someone who works at schools with students with IEPs this is a legal liability for the school that any teacher should know about. What's more, this is a clear cut medical need on the part of your child. This teacher was not only breaking the law but also endangering your child. And the teacher had been reminded of the legal document and the danger to the child's health *and just didn't care.*
If you were an administrator, would you want someone like that working at your school or in your district? Probably not. The district dosen't want to be sued. And they also care about the well being of students, which means people who repeatedly endanger kids just to power trip aren't good teachers to keep on. This is exactly why new hires have a probationary period (6 months is common in my area). Some people aren't fit to be teachers and it's not in the best interest of the students or the district for them to be.
NTA- You didn't go too far because any teacher should have been informed of the 504 and the accommodations it entails. It is the teachers fault for not taking the accommodations seriously.
If this ever happens in the future, you should contact the teacher, but also cc the principal and your child's case manager/a member of the SPED team who is in charge of making teachers aware of special services. It's a question of safeguarding your child and you shouldn't let an incident like this go unaddressed by the administration. That's what they're there for. If the teacher had an issue with the accommodations, then it needs to be made crystal clear to them by the admin that 504 plans are legally required to be adhered to.
I've had parents call meetings with me (the classroom teacher), admin, and the nurse before school starts to discuss medical issues that their child has and make a plan for what to do in case of when symptoms arise or emergencies. It seemed like overkill at the time, but hearing how flippant and dismissive other staff members could be about the issues, it all made perfect sense why the parent called the meeting. A meeting with the new teacher, admin, and nurse might be something to consider.
Speaking as a former teacher, you did the right thing. I’d feel differently if it was the first offense, because schools aren’t always good at sharing accommodation paperwork with the teachers and they may not be aware of medical problems, but this teacher had no excuse. You told her the problem under no uncertain terms, she saw the consequences in your child, and she still broke the law and put a student at risk. She shouldn’t work with kids if she puts them at risk like that.
While in a perfect world all people in authority would honor your daughter's 504 requirements under the ADA, unfortunately there are people like this teacher.
You are definitely NTA for correcting her. You didn't get her fired, her own inability to read and follow directions got her fired.
If you can swing it, have your daughter pack some glucose tabs in addition to the snacks. If you get one of the small tubes (which you can refill from the large bottles) it looks a little more like medical intervention and less like a snack and might result in fewer people like idiot teacher trying to deny her access to needed glucose.
My sister had type 1 diabetes. That teacher was waaaaaaay out of line. You didn’t get her fired. She got herself fired for endangering your daughter’s life. I saw my sister pass out from low sugar once. I’m glad your daughter doesn’t have to deal with that kind of stupidity. What if your daughter passed out in her class and the teacher ignored it because your daughter is “acting entitled”? The teacher literally threatened your daughter’s safety with some power trip. You don’t have to feel bad for her getting fired. It’s not your fault at all.
The teacher set the school up for a lawsuit. She’s lucky that all you did was talk to the principal.
NTA. If this teacher was willing to follow accommodations for your child, she would likely not follow accommodations for another child. If she’s not willing to follow the law, then she shouldn’t be a teacher.
Exactly. She got herself fired because she made herself a liability to that school.
This teacher got themselves fired for literally endangering your daughters life.
We had a girl pass out in class my senior year. She didn't know she was diabetic & was dieting for prom along with being an athlete.
She hit her head on a desk. She was okay, but it was scary.
And your daughter is probably not the only student for whom this teacher has ignored 504/IEP plans. She needed to go.
(Ps. Would you rather feel guilty about her losing her job or have your child or another child in a diabetic coma or anaphylactic sHock due to ignored food allergies?)
NTA. Like others have stated, 504s are legally binding. Being a first year teacher isn’t an excuse, you learn about IEPs and 504s in college. This teacher is lucky she only got fired. She could have got her teaching certificate revoked.
Wow, this happened to me in second grade where I passed out with my glucose level at 14. Asked the teacher If I could go to the nurse cause I was feeling shaky and she denied me. Had no idea this was a thing.
"It's **your fault** that you **threw your career away** over 'some stupid snacks'."
I'm honestly baffled by the stupidity of this teacher.
Hopefully she wasn’t teaching biology.
Hopefully. Though, there's no excuse for her behavior as a teacher no matter what she was teaching. She put a child's life in danger intentionally even after she was informed.
Fully agree. There’s no excuse for this
I kind of wonder if it was a bio or chem class. Food is absolutely not allowed in these classes for good reason. Although the teacher should have allowed the student to step out of the room to eat in this case, so the parent is still NTA.
This. I was an aide in science classes for a few years after college, and we always made accommodations for things like this that kept everyone safe in lab but also protected the kid with the 504. Snack in the hall or a few minutes to quick eat between classes (ex stay behind the few min in a preceding class then report to lab) are both reasonable accommodations both parties can agree to.
And that's the rub: IEPs and 504s make *reasonable accommodations* to set students up for success respective to their needs. When the teacher becomes unreasonable, you approach the principal or whoever is next on the chain of command in the district. NTA
Im a t1d and did chemistry labs in university. All my professors have been smart enough to work a plan with me so I can have my life saving equipment and snacks near reach and let me leave for 10 mins if needed. I can garantee this teacher was on a power trip.
ETA I worked with dangerous substances in these labs so you know it was serious lol
Yeah, and I think at 13 they're probably not doing anything too intensive in science that would be disturbed if she just stepped out for a moment.
Right, even if it was then she’s still NTA because there are other accommodations like having a set break of five minutes every thirty minutes or allowing her to have the seat closest to the door so she can step out.
We have an IEP for one child and have had amazing responses from all the teachers aside from our KG teacher who again, thought we were raising a “brat”, like no, he physically can’t do what you want him to do, he goes to Pt & OT twice a week to do those things. We are working on them, he is medicated, just think about what we’re trying to achieve - safely educating all children - rather than enforcing the arbitrary rules of your fiefdom that don’t benefit anyone.
She’s probably the same type who think food allergies aren’t real.
fun hill to die on.
As someone who was a volunteer in a school, some teachers have serious powers trips. They just cause more defiance and there's a really difficult cycle that emerges.
A very difficult cycle
"Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions."
NTA. She put your daughter's life at risk...twice.
The school did her a favor, frankly, by firing her. Better be fired than let your foolish choices kill a child in your care and then have to deal with the consequences. In a way, the teacher was saved from herself.
This reminds me of the idiotic high school coaches who kill children through negligence by not recognizing heat stroke or other injuries. It's so easy to *not* actively murder children under your care.
Negligent homicide can carry a 10 year sentence, not to mention the bankrupting civil suit sure to follow.
Unless you're a cop
Here's the deal, she doesn't see it this way and probably never will.
if the first time this was done by mistake okay, it could happen, she was already explained why the kid needs the snack, but she did it twice, which means she knew what could happen if that kid skip "the snack" she could probably die and she literally didn't care, for that teacher it was more important her way than the health of her student.
So I'm sure this woman until the day she dies it's going to blame the brat and her awful mom for her firing.
Kinda seems like teacher thought OP was just saying whatever to get her kid a snack in class. I bet she thought she was gonna catch OP in some sorta “gotcha” moment.
Imagine if, in the later future, she's gonna relay this story to someone and she'll end up pissed because nobody's on HER side and they all agree she could've killed a child.
people like this MUST NOT work with children.
I guess that's why they fired her
Seriously. I'd have been in the principal's office the first time. NTA
I studied to be an art teacher for a while, and we talked quite a bit about students having special accommodations (and how to deal with them.) This teacher should have known better, no question about it.
From what I know, I believe teachers are required to follow accommodations and if any part of their plan does not work out they should request a meeting and NOT deny that accommodation.
Teachers are ABSOLUTELY required to follow accomodations in a 504. NTA.
Although honestly, I'm not surprised to read this. Every year is a battle to have my neice's ADHD accomodations met. Teachers routinely argue that her specially-allowed items are distracting to others and take them away, leaving her struggling to focus/learn and ultimately more of a distraction to the class. Sometimes expensive items - that never get returned. And it doesn't matter how often my sister brings up her agreed-upon education plan... until she goes over their head to the principal. She really should start recording phone calls. Smart OP!
I worked for a few years as a teacher's aide in special education: specifically, I was in-class inclusion support. My supervising teacher (special ed) and I reviewed the IEPs and 504s, then we implemented the accommodations while collaborating with the reg ed classroom teacher on how to meet the need in a way everyone could live with, modifying as needed.
Most teachers were amazing, but one science teacher was a pain. No matter how many times any of us explained that x kid needed quizzes modified to only have 3 choices on multiple choice (common mod for dyslexia we saw all the time), the teacher fought us on it. Even when I made the modifications for them. Their favorite kind was "Even a monkey can be trained to do multiple choice."
I eventually snapped and told them to pivot into a career at a zookeeper if they felt higher of monkeys than children.
So sorry to see that breed of teacher still exists.
Yup, I had a fourth grade math and science teacher who was the same way. Mom had to threaten to go to the state to get them to do anything
That crap always angered me growing up. I was in gifted programs, while my brothers had speech and/or reading delays. Both brothers are brilliant in their own ways, and simple modifications reveal that. Literally, one excelled if he could take written exams in a silent room with less people in it to distract him. That was all he needed, but THAT was "too much" to some teachers. Man has a near photographic memory for what he reads if you leave him to read; he just takes longer to read as it's a slow, methodical process.
Even having worked in education, it blows my mind little some teachers care when so many are selfless.
> modified to only have 3 choices on multiple choice
This is interesting. Is it so they can spend less time reading choices and actually thinking about the answer?
Pretty close: less time decoding extra, unneeded words. Basically, the logic was that due to their struggles processing the written word to start, removing one choice evened the field. Some of our students consistently would bomb the second half of exams just from mental fatigue but knew every single answer if we read the questions out loud (another modification this teacher hated).
Be careful recording calls. If you are in a two party consent state you can get in a decent amount of legal trouble for recording the call without their consent. Make sure you check the laws where you live first.
Solid reminder, thank you! I checked and my state only requires consent of one party.
You can just say "I am recording this call" and if they stay on the line, that's consent. It's like when you call customer support and they say "This call is recorded".
By the way op that teacher knew she had to follow the 504, because that is one of those things that gets drilled into teachers (along with IEPs and privacy laws) similarly to that of HIPPA with medical personnel.
Yup! I'm not even a teacher (my undergrad training is communication disorders, going to grad school for SLP) and so many of our classes focused on IDEA, FAPE, and FERPA. We work in medical settings with adults, too, so we also went over HIPAA basics as well as laws about teletherapy (cant remember them specifically) but we REALLY went hard on all the laws surrounded working with kids in schools in a way we didn't go over HIPAA and other laws.
Absolutely correct. It's like section 508 compliance, you must do what you can within the best of your ability and if you CANT, you need to make it known, not just toss it off to the side.
This is a federal law. You could have used the school and most likely won big time had your daughter gotten hurt.
They were dropping a huge liability.
I had a whole class on IEPs and accommodations. It's a huge part of the job, and it's taken super seriously because of how much trouble a school can get into for violating them.
I am guessing this teacher is the kind of person who also thinks food allergies are fake.
This is true. An accommodation cannot be refused. A meeting must be called and all parties must agree if a change should/can occur.
NTA in a million years. You are advocating for the health and safety of your child, she was in very real danger. Snacks are literally medical care she was being denied. That is never ever acceptable.
She's getting off lightly by just being fired. I would contact the principal again regarding this interaction at the store and ask if there is a formal complaint that can be made against the teacher's license.
I’m pretty sure most schools would be weary to hire someone who violated someone’s accommodations and was fired for that reason. She’s likely gonna have a lot of trouble finding a new job.
As she should. As a teacher I would not want her as a coworker.
I was also going to suggest you let the principal know about the interaction in the store. This woman has no business working with children.
This. Email him about the occurrence in the store. I can guarantee it will be forwarded to HR to be added to her employment file. They do not want the liability of her being hired within the district again.
OP - I am so glad you dealt with the situation this way. You likely saved your daughter's health but if she was this flagrant about a T1D accommodation, I can guarantee she made those with learning disabilities lives hell. She sounds like the type to make a dyslexic read in front of the class, or make a kid with dyscalculia do a math equation on the board in front of the class. Or make fun of a kid with ADHD for moving a bit in class.
Some people should not be teachers.
And, good for you for just walking away.
Not the Principal, she is no longer employed there, he has no involvement with her any more and nothing will come of it beyond some sympathetic noises. To actually follow it up contact the body that licenses teachers in whatever state/country this occurred in.
The principal might be able to offer some advice of what to do or who to go to. They might offer nothing, but there’s not much bad that can come from speaking to them and asking advice or who or where to go to.
Schools would be wary of hiring her because she’s literally a liability. Most schools don’t give a hoot about accommodations, and willingly violate 504s and IEPs all the time. The difference in this case is that your daughter is in immediate life threatening danger. If your daughter is permanently injured or dies because the teacher denied a snack, you’d sue and win. This is the school protecting itself more than anything.
As both a former 504 kid and a former part-time teacher who had a student with Type 1 - she SHOULD have trouble finding a job. Her ego endangered your kid and devalued the expertise of both medical and educational professionals who all contributed to mandating these kind of accommodations.
You would've been a horrible parent to allow your daughter to continue to be in the care of an adult who would choose to directly ignore you, your daughter's health, her bosses and the law over something so petty. I HOPE people don't trust her to care for children in the future.
As it should be OP, it is a danger to the integrity of the children, it could not just be your baby, with that attitude who knows how many children she/he put in dangerous situations. :(
I keep hearing about cops who get hired after misconduct at another place, and there not being any central database to keep track of such things, so it wouldn't surprise me if the same applies to teachers. Is this a public school?
(Also, weary -> wary).
NTA. As a special education teacher, I can assure you that teacher needed to go. If this teacher, and a BRAND NEW teacher, was violating letting a student eat snacks as stated in her 504, I wouldnt be surprised if the other 504s and IEPs in the class were being violated.
Not sure what state you live in. But in my state, all teachers have to sign the IEPs and 504 within the first 2 weeks of school stating they read them for each student in their class. Most states have some kind of similar legal requirement. Either this teacher signed without reading, or she read them and decided to discriminate against students based on medical conditions and disabilities.
You did the right thing and protected other students from her.
When I was a teacher we had the same rules. Additionally the 504 coordinator would go over anything put of the ordinary, like snacks, with us when she gave us the folders.
I have like a million 504’s and IEP’s in any given year and I’ll freely admit that I don’t have every single accommodation memorized every day. However, if I’m in doubt it takes a couple seconds to look it up, and if you always err on the side of providing an accommodation it’s really not hard. I have had T1 diabetic students and the nurse contacted all of the teachers at the beginning of the year to remind us of accommodations as well. Extra time on tests is one thing but things like “this kid’s monitor might go off, let them handle it” or “this kid has seizures” are quite another and get pushed to the top of the priority list in my brain.
The signatures on IEPs is a federal requirement. So she was definitely being held to that standard, too.
I don't know why you're even asking. Of course you're NTA. Anyone of these things is a perfectly legitimate reason why you not only aren't the AH, but this teacher should never have been teaching young children:
1) For those who are unfamiliar, T1D is an incredibly dangerous disease that can kill a seemingly healthy young person in a short time. That teacher could literally have caused your child's death by denying them what she referred to as "a stupid snack". This wasn't about general hypoglycaemia or being "hangry" or just fainting. Kids with T1D go into diabetic shock and die all the time. Parents I know whose kids have it live in constant fear, and it has to be monitored so carefully.
2) The fact that even after multiple warnings, meetings, explanations, and a 504 plan that indicated your child's medical needs, this teacher had the gall to refer to your child as "entitled" and to her medically necessary food as "stupid snacks" also speaks really strongly to both this teacher's shocking ignorance and horrifying attitude towards kids in general. No kindness or patience, no desire whatsoever to be understanding, and a complete inability to comprehend a well-known medical condition are also indicators that this woman should never have been an educator in the first place.
My mother was a teacher for nearly 50 years. I worked in daycares and schools for years. **The accepted standard when working with kids with T1D** is not only to allow them snacks or juice, but for the teacher to keep some as well (a juice box, a tube of frosting, etc.) for emergencies. I am utterly appalled at this entire situation, but you are in no way the AH here. She needed to get gone.
I’m a volunteer who works with kids in my spare time and I literally go nowhere without an applesauce packet and peel apart fruit snacks. I have both because some kids have texture issues with one or the other but rarely both.
Point is that people who work with kids even CASUALLY know better than Miss Got Fired.
I was literally just into the Babysitter's Club in my early teens and I know more about T1 than she does.
Before insulin injections, diabetes was just a death sentence. I'm sorry, your kid won't live. T1 was called juvenile diabetes because adults didn't have it - they all died in childhood. It is a ruthless condition and children still die because of it. OP's daughter was put at serious risk by this ex-teacher, who is lucky she isn't facing charges of negligence.
The best answer of all, and leaving aside how horrible this teacher is as a professional, as a person he/she is also leaving much to be desired, in what world do you deny food to a person, a child, with diabetes, when that prevents their lives in danger, that lacking empathy ...
You’d be surprised how few people actually understand diabetes. There are medical workers who dont understand it. it is enough to raise my blood pressure. I actively try to do everything I can to stay out of hospitals.
Thank you for posting such a comprehensive, articulate reply.
I’m a 4th generation diabetic and I’m just seething over this “educator’s” ignorance.
I suspect that, for her, “stupid snacks” are right up there with “stupid vaccines” and “stupid blood transfusions.”
Someone so profoundly ignorant has no business teaching children.
Yes, all of this. My aunt’s grandson has type 1, everybody has the app attached to his continuous monitor on their phone. Depending on where he’s at depends on who has notifications, but everybody has it. If it goes off in the middle of the night his parents are getting out of bed and making him take care of himself (he’s a teenager, sometimes teens don’t want to take care of their medical needs the way they should). His older sister is protective when it comes to it. When he first got diagnosed my aunt sat in with all the meetings his parents had with doctors to learn everything to help take care of him (he was in elementary school I think when he got diagnosed).
Type one can be *scary*. It can be deadly.
OP is 100% NTA.
And yes, I think his teachers always had sugary stuff on hand in case he needed it and for some reason didn’t have it. My entire life my aunt has always had chapstick in every pocket ever, since his diagnosis glucose tablets were added to that 😂
NTA. Seems like that teacher made that restriction up in her head. Also, it’s not about “stupid snacks” it’s about your daughter's LIFE.
Seems like she has no idea what type 1 diabetes even is.
And she's supposed to be a teacher.
It always surprises me that college graduates can be so dumb.
The whole point of things like 504s and IEPs is that they are NOT optional or subject to the whims of petty tyrants. Fuck that lady.
>She told me that it’s my fault I got her fired over “some stupid snacks” and I need to stop raising an entitled brat.
Some motherfuckers are *always* tryin to iceskate uphill. NTA op.
she was fired for endangerment
She was fired for violating the student’s civil rights; a choice that opens the school and the district for litigation. Civil Rights complaints are a crappy thing for a school district to have on their record, the complaint stays on the record for the entirety of the investigation and trial (assuming it gets that far). The process in my area averages about two years. The teacher will have this noted on her employment record with the district as well, and will have a hard time finding employment elsewhere nearby.
NTA at all, she broke the law and endangered you daughter TWICE. Knowingly putting your students’ health at risk is her fault, not yours. It was far from a “stupid snack”
I’m just baffled over why she chose a diabetic student having a snack to prevent her blood sugar from tanking as a hill to die on. Diabetes is not a rare disease and most people have a general idea of what can happen when your blood sugar levels are off. A 13 year old taking a few minutes to have a snack at her desk is not going to disrupt the class in any way. And why the hell would you think a kid who needs to have a snack to literally stay conscious is an entitled brat..? That woman had zero business being a teacher.
Probably a new teacher enjoying her first taste of power tripping.
Nta, I would highly recommend telling your daughter if it happens again (another teacher), walk out and go straight to the office to eat her snack while they call you
This teacher isn't a doctor, she doesn't get to decide if your daughter cant have a snack to keep herself from getting sick. I'm assuming her passing out would be very dangerous. I for one am glad to hear she got fired. Nta.
I’ll say I’m sure the Teacher feels that you’re the asshole but I don’t agree. Maybe the principle should’ve talked to her how she needs to let kids that Need snacks eat them. She could’ve got defensive and rude and That was the reason she was fired. Hard to say but the teacher wouldn’t have been in this situation At All if she had more compassion and was less of an asshole herself.
She probably either got defensive and rude or was fired for repeat violations despite being made aware of her 504.
She must have no heart, who does that to a kid? What does a snack hurt? It’s not like she’s eating to just eat in class. She fucked around and found out, NTA.
Imagine actually asking if YTA. Jfc this sub has gone to shit.
Am I the only one getting fake vibes here? It seems a lot of the posts resort to themselves being called “entitled” over very trivial comment sense things that are likely to get the average person heated.
I knew before I even read it that it was going to be a medical issue. The responses are just as cheesey.
People make posts knowing damn well they're going to be NTA... That's why most of them sound either fake or exaggerated
I have known people who are type 1 diabetic. I also knew one person who died from it.
The teacher should have known better. It is their job to ensure not just the safety of their students, but to educate them. I'm glad her ass got fired. She had no business being around children because of her complete lack of care, especially for this situation. Diabetes is an invisible illness, and if the proper care is not taken, a person can die. There is no excuse for this teacher's behavior.
NTA. A teacher who calls a pupil an “entitled brat” and blames YOU for them putting your daughters health in danger is better off working on a production line than at a school. Once is a mistake, twice is neglect. You did good.
Also, you didn’t get her fired. You made a complaint with evidence to support your concerns. The principal, her superior, made the call to fire her based on their working and safeguarding policies. If she wants to blame anyone she could try taking a look in her mirror.
>She told me that it’s my fault I got her fired over “some stupid snacks” and I need to stop raising an entitled brat.
Why do you people even post here when you get responses like this, lol.
2. Free karma
Couldn’t agree more
NTA it's a documented health issue you would be in the wrong if you were demanding she have a five-course meal in the middle of class or not documented. I'm guessing this person that also done other things who complains over a freaking snack
100% NTA. My niece is a T1D and has a similar 504 plan. You handled it much more gently than my sister would have if this happened to her child. 504 plans are there to protect children who need support in school. This teacher violated that 504 plan and was reprimanded accordingly.
>This teacher violated that 504 plan and was reprimanded accordingly.
NTA I’ve had several students who need special accommodations, including snacks, for their health and learning. It’s my experience that school nurses tend to talk to these teachers to explain these health needs. I find it odd that your school didn’t do this, or possibly the teacher has ignored medical instructions.
NTA. The principal did the school a favour by firing her. Not letting your child eat after being informed of her hypoglycemia is sadism.
NTA. She broke the law twice, at least once knowingly. The school is somewhat responsible for her actions, they likely fired her to avoid a future lawsuit if she were to continue denying things necessary for students’ health. Sounds like they made a good call because she still doesn’t see or refuses to accept the problem with what she did.
Case closed, because if anyone has had to deal with a hypo they'd tell everyone to *"f off!"* if they tried to stop them from trying to get some sugar and their blood sugar level back up before they have:
or go into coma and likely suffer permanent brain damage.
Nevermind that they feel absolutely terrible as you jitter, feel clammy, your heart feels like it's going to jump out of your chest, and the symptoms just get worse the lower you go.
Fyi, Gatorade powder works extremely fast thanks to the electrolytes & simple sugars, and the powder makes it easy to have anywhere compare to other snacks or liquids.
NTA she failed to follow the law and put your kid in danger. She's lucky you are you, cause If I were you I'd go postal and end up in jail. She better count her lucky stars.
that teacher got themselves fired for failing to do their job.
I usually work in warehouse jobs, so if I got special instructions to handle pink boxes with care and take them directly to department B, but I do exactly NOT that whenever I get pink boxes, then it was MY fault because I failed to do my job, which included taking pink boxes carefully and directly to dept B.
NTA, and smart move just ignoring them.
NTA, I mean you didn’t even immediately go to the principal you first gave her a warning and then she continued to disregard a legitimate medical issue. That is insane, she was endangering your child after she had been made aware of her situation. She should not be in a job where she is responsible for children if she can’t take health issues seriously.
NTA diabetes you can't play games with and teacher don't deserve to be a teacher if she can't recollect on that. Hope she never has a diabetic child herself cuz diabetes not a game to play with
NTA: It wasn't over "some snacks", it was about your daughters health and well-being. The fact she still doesn't understand that AFTER being fired says all you need to know about this poor excuse for a teacher.
"You almost killed my child."
"I dOnT cArE, yoU gOt Me FiReD!"
Talk about an entitled brat.
NTA she risked your daughters health on a power trip upholding an arcane rule that denies letting children eat in class. Ridiculous.
Even without a 504, most educators believe that children should be allowed to eat when hungry. How is a hungry child going to pay attention and learn?
With a 504, that teacher is just being full lawful evil and deserved to be terminated.
Good job protecting your daughter and other students from that teacher!
I believe snacks aren’t usually allowed in class because of crumbs and ants and kids not cleaning up after themselves. Doesn’t matter, my baby NEEDED that snack and has a documented 504 that says she has to be allowed one.
First time could have been a mistake. Second time can't.
I the first paragraph and already decided that you were NOT the AH. I read the rest, and my opinion stands.
I am a teacher and I understand that we MUST follow IEPs, 504s, BIPSs, etc. they are NOT put in place for our convenience but for needs presented by the child… key word NEEDS. She’s a HUGE AH. You did the world a favor by voicing this and I am proud of the admin for not taking the lightly and sweeping under the rug. Taking care of your child’s health will never make you the AH.
Defying a federal regulation because you feel like it and not letting a kid have a snack during class (even if it’s not in a 504) makes her in the wrong.
Students are HUMAN and they have NEEDS TO SURVIVE. Food should never be withheld.
NTA, as a parent myself we place our trust in our school system and teachers. Not only have you've gone to the extent of ensuring your child's safety, but have done so legally; making sure to follow all required school rules. Beyond this, you also informed this teacher of the situation and exceptions that apply to your child after the first situation happened. She got herself fired; she chose to disregard the rules and a childs safety. Not only is this teacher TAH, she is also just a shitty person.
NTA The confrontation at Publix tells her whole story.
NTA. The teacher doesn't seem to get that it wasn't "some stupid snacks" that got her fired. If she did she wouldn't have called your daughter an "entitled brat." She's just doubling down on the stupidity. It was her *failure* to comply with a 504 plan and putting the district at risk of a *federal investigation* that got her fired. Besides that, you had *no idea* that she would get fired you just wanted the principle to have a chat with her.
Makes me wonder how many other parents complained about stuff she was doing in order for her to get fired.
NTA. I don't know how you held back she called you child an entitled brat.
I'd have verbally let her have it right there in the store. The while place would know she was AH as a teacher
NTA at all. The teacher was fired for ignoring a legal document. Not for anything else.
NTA it's a medical condition, there are exceptions to rules, this being one of them
NTA. That teacher endangered your daughter by ignoring her medical accommodations.
NTA she is not an entitled brat she has a medical condition and snacks are a treatment that teacher could have put her in hospital or worse. A teacher refusing to allow documented medical treatment to a student deserves to be fired its her own fault.
nta. you gave her the benefit of the doubt the first time.
NTA. She is required to read and understand all the needs of her students. She absolutely SHOULD have been fired. Coming from a teacher, she has no place being in charge of kids when she could get them killed.
NTA, that 504 is the law and the principal knows this. That teacher was not only immoral for putting a child at risk, she was illegal.
NTA. She was warned she was in violation and sounds like she was a power trip teacher. She got herself fired.