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Netflix, Dave Chappelle and Transphobia

Netflix, Dave Chappelle and Transphobia

Rectal_Lactaids

company execs continue to be hateful and shitty pt 9832748383


floofhugger

were they ever not?


idiotplatypus

I'm glad they're launching themselves into the endless void where no one can hear their bullshit


droomph

Dave “I refuse to use my perspective as a black person who’s gone through this exact same shit that I’m pulling with any sort of empathy towards the queers” Chapelle


dootdootplot

Yeah I’m really pretty disappointed in where he’s ending up. I feel like my own experiences with queerness were largely responsible for expanding my awareness of bigotry and prejudice and stereotypes and oppression - it’s unsettling that someone else could draw the opposite conclusion from their own struggles.


squishpitcher

he lost me with his whole “a little rape is okay if the person doing the raping does good stuff, too.” i saw some of his old stuff as well and it has not aged well. he’s always been like this.


Lady_Galadri3l

Dave "I don't think there are black trans people" Chapelle


KeysToTheRoc

false equivalency. You can hide your queerness in certain situations, you can't hide being black


turtlehabits

I know this is an important topic and all but all I can focus on is that apparently Ted Sarandos thinks they're called "first party shooters"


kokohart

I’m a rhombus time shooter fan, myself. But seriously. I haven’t watched the Chapelle special in question, but I have read several articles. From what I gather is that some people think he’s poking fun because it’s fun poking. As in he’s not shitting on people that are more marginalized than himself. Which almost makes sense, but most of the articles reference his token trans friend to “prove” he’s not bigoted. She may have found those jokes hilarious, sure. But I can’t help but think if she were to find those jokes funny, it would be because of some level of internalized transphobia. There’s a lot of trans jokes that tow the line but it really seemed to me that his jokes (which I read transcribed to text) were…. Well… sounded willfully ignorant. Instead of poking fun at his own ignorance of gendering and stuff, he pointed a finger at everyone else. Idk. I love chapelle’s style of comedy and story telling typically. I can’t come up with a good excuse for how fucking mean and dumb he sounded. Edit: this rant was more for me than your brilliant comment. 🙃 sorry to unload.


coffeeshopAU

Do you listen to podcasts? Cancel Me, Daddy did an episode on this whole debacle recently and I feel like they expressed really well what’s wrong with his jokes in this special - namely the fact that they’re all playing on harmful stereotypes of trans women being dangerous. They also point to the fact that apparently he declared himself cancelled before the backlash even arrived, almost as if he was being a dick on purpose and trying to stir up controversy to get more views, which is just……… really gross


kokohart

I do love me a good podcast. I’ll check it out! Thank you.


coffeeshopAU

Honestly it’s a great show, I enjoy it a lot. They generally do pretty great analysis of whatever bullshit is currently happening and then I don’t have to wade through twitter when I’m out of the loop on something haha


kokohart

Ooo. That sounds right up my alley. Now I just have to find the motivation to clean the kitchen and put it on in the background.


kokohart

Idk if you’ll see this, but I listened to several episodes of that podcast and I loved it. Thank you for recommending it!


coffeeshopAU

Oh hey no one has ever actually got back to me about a podcast recommendation before haha. I’m so glad you checked it out and enjoyed it!!


kokohart

Well now you’re making it sound like you have all kinds of podcasts to recommend. Care to give any more recommendations?


coffeeshopAU

Oh I have so many recommendations! I used to work in a job where I could listen to podcasts while I worked and I kept listening to more and more…… now I’m so behind on everything because I got a different job lmao Various science/information/history topics: - the weirdest thing I learned this week - ologies - overheard at national geographic Medical history/diseases: - sawbones - this podcast will kill you Plants: - in defense of plants - completely arbortrary Nature: - Future Ecologies - the field guides - creature feature Assorted science: - Daniel & Jorge explain the universe (astronomy & physics) - you are not so smart (psychology/cognitive sciences) - twenty thousand hertz (sound and adjacent topics) - personology (historical figures & their psychology) LGBTQ+: - gender reveal - gayish Indigenous issues: - All My Relations Fiction: - the Magnus archives (horror: short stories that take place in the same universe and over several seasons become increasingly more interconnected) - the adventure zone (DnD real play/story improv: current campaign Ethersea is fantastic so far, first campaign Balance is what they’re known for, also has several oneshot live shows that are soooo hilarious) - Alice isn’t dead (horror/suspense: woman takes a job at a trucking company in order to track down her missing wife) - King Falls AM (comedy/paranormal: dude who does not believe in ghosts moves to America’s most haunted small town to stat a radio show. Warning that they went on hiatus and then cancelled the show so it’s unfinished but imo still worth listening to it’s a lot of fun) I get a lot of new podcasts via other podcasts either from hearing ads on the same network or if one podcast interviews another podcaster, and there are a ton that I’ve heard come up in many of these shows that I haven’t had a chance to check out yet lol. Happy listening!


kokohart

You. Are. Amazing. There’s a few there I have listened to but a few I haven’t heard of! I’m definitely gonna check out the fiction/horror ones you recommended. And I’ll probably start listening to All My Relations this afternoon.


MorningBreathTF

He also had a heavily ignorant and probably transphobic joke in another special, where he said “I could just choose to be Asian than”, like okay david you fuckin ignorant bigot


Leaves_Swype_Typos

>But seriously. I haven’t watched the Chapelle special in question, but I have read several articles. >I can’t come up with a good excuse for how fucking mean and dumb he sounded. The irony is that he addresses **exactly** this circumstance in the special, people not actually watching his performances but reading maligning articles to form their opinion and then letting it loose on him.


MorningBreathTF

Recognising that you’re an asshole then not doing anything to rectify it makes you an asshole. if he knows the joke he’s going to say is just offensive and mean spirited, being self aware about it doesn’t take away his responsibility, it makes him more culpable to his actions


Leaves_Swype_Typos

What does that have to do with my comment?


semiticgod

I watched the whole damn thing and it was worse than the articles and comments I'd read about it. The man spends the whole special mocking women's appearances, throwing out myths about the queer community, and playing the victim because he knew other people were going to use their freedom of speech to fault him for his own bigotry. It wasn't just transphobic; it was misogynistic on top. It's blatantly obvious, watching the special as a member of the trans community, that he's never made any attempt to learn anything about who we are and what we're about. He's no different from any other transphobe. I've assumed best intentions many times before. Every time, the bigotry is more severe than I thought.


Leaves_Swype_Typos

Sure you did. *Space Jews*.


semiticgod

The one joke I didn't get Maybe next time I should just assume the worst, since clearly the transphobe's supporters aren't going to care even if I did watch the thing EDIT: I took a look at your comment history and I'm now convinced assuming the worst is often a pretty fair bet


kokohart

I know he touched on those subjects. And I clearly admitted that I am forming my opinion from reading instead of seeing. I read beforehand to decide if I wanted to watch it, just like how people read reviews of movies before watching. But I am considering watching it for realsies just to get a better grasp on what the hoopla is about and to have a more informed opinion.


Leaves_Swype_Typos

Okay but if you don't already know if you like/would want to watch Dave Chappelle's stand up, this is a weird jumping in point. It's not called "The Closer" for no reason, it's capping off a series of stand-ups. Like I wasn't reading reviews for Iron Man 2 to decide if I wanted to see that, Iron Man 1 determined that for me. I could understand if it was about signing up for Netflix to see it, but otherwise it's a little odd and counterproductive to forming your own opinions. Anyway, to really understand the hoopla better than everyone railing against it, you have to go all the way back [the offended article that started it all](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2010/3/4/843117/-), the one that trans people have been angrily approaching him about for a decade now.


kokohart

No worries. I do generally love Dave Chapelle and have watched most all of his specials except for The Closer. I admit I heard the discourse first before I would have watched it. I think stand up specials are a bit different and can act as stand-alone pieces as opposed to sequels to a movie. I have read that article, a while ago. And it does come off as a poor reaction to going to a comedy show. I think some of those jokes could indeed be funny without the context of Chapelle constantly harping on “man with titties” and the whole token trans friend thing. Then again, I haven’t watched The Closer yet. I remember watching his interview with David Letterman a year or so ago and really respecting Dave Chapelle. But now, armed with new knowledge about what he’s said, I’m apprehensive on appreciating his view point.


spillednoodles

That made me think about a team-based fps that has party-themed places with party themed items


[deleted]

[team fortress 2](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/c/c3/Cm_scout_pregamefirst_rare_10.mp3)


floofhugger

r/Piracy just use this


Leo-bastian

"videogames don't make people violent and that's because what someone says on a screen doesn't affect the real world at all" might be the worst take ive ever seen be made seriously


MorningBreathTF

I can now make and brutally assualt a life like model of ted sarandos in a game then post it and he can’t be offended or hurt or care at all about it, it’s online bro doesn’t affect anything


Dofork

I watched a Jacob Geller video that posits that videogames don't make people violent, but they do *desensitize* people to violence. As in, they make you care a little less when something violent happens around you.


ciclon5

I mean its kinda true only idiots would blindly trust media. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots out there


CiCiplz

Ok, so about that list of harmful content that this dickwad thinks isn't crossing the line Cuties is exploiting its preteen girl cast in a shit attempt to comment on exploitation of preteen girls 365 days portrays sexual assault and sexual abuse uncomfortably realistically, with the female protagonist often times struggling and trying to get away. No comment on how it might affect relationships, but it's definitely a minefield of triggers 13 reasons why just. Actually has a death count. Like they were told not to present suicide like this, they did, and whoops! Copycat suicides happened. So I'd say those shows have some real world consequences. Also, just because it doesn't have consequences doesn't mean that it isn't morally fucked. Like, presenting this shit in a romanticized and sensationalized way is fucked up man


Sinister_Compliments

Having not seen 365 days and only knowing what you’ve said, I’d say that’s fine ***IF***, and it’s a big if, they properly inform everyone watching about those triggers beforehand, like before the movie starts have it up on the big screen, have your lead actor explain that the scenes shown will have detail and realism, just something that clearly explains to the audience this is going to be explicit and you may not want to watch it.


CiCiplz

HOHOH WELL GUESS WHAT BUCKAROO They did not Like, aside from the obvious ratings warning, it didn't exactly go into specifics about, yknow, woman getting abused by this dude And it lowkey makes me worried for the people who were into 50 shades, see this thinking it's the same vein, and it ends up being a lot more intense for them? Even if you don't have a specific trigger for that, it'd be upsetting to watch that without warning


Sinister_Compliments

Yeah that’s just shit, like it’s not that hard to say “we are showing very graphic images of this type of thing/abuse” that should be common place at this point.


Cienea_Laevis

>Cuties is exploiting its preteen girl cast in a shit attempt to comment on exploitation of preteen girls Thats not what its about tho ? Its a commentary how immigrant sometime have trouble fitting in and end-up folowing exemple of main culture. Althewhile pointing that sex is so present that it affect childrens. And its also a big fat middle finger to the Paris circles as i see it, as well as a sort-of snarky remark on what The Seventh Art can do without anyone batting an eye.


dashPotato

well, yeah, maybe that was the intent of the movie, but the people making the movie and Netflix's marketing people still exploited the preteen cast members, especially by putting them in clothes/positions that society deems sexual, in order to push the movie.


laCrocsbItch

Netflix did market it very poorly. Idk if you've ever seen the original poster, but look it up and compare it to the Netflix one... you can totally see where they inflated sexuality to selll the movie. As far as the girls though, they kept mental health professionals one set during all the inappropriate scenes who were specialized in child counseling to minimize the detrimental effects and were constantly checking on the girls comfort level during shoots. I don't think that negates the sue of children in such an uncomfortable way, but it does show me at least that they were trying to tell their story as authentically as possible while also caring about the girls who were cast, rather than just treating them like disposable props. There are a lot of complicates feelings about this movie, and I think part of it because the creator is telling a very specific story that only a small group of people can relate too, and it deals with such heavy themes. I do think a lot of people in the same demographic as the creator found themselves accurately represented by this film, and that is so important. But for anyone outside that group, there was no personal discovery or connection, so it didn't have the same impact. I am not a member of that group, so I can only go based off of what I have heard from members of that group, but that was my takeaway from those interactions.


Cienea_Laevis

Netflix just reused a scene already present. On the ethics of using the girls in this movie, I don't know. From my PoV, you sometime need to break some eggs to make the stuff. And its not like they arn't protected by laws and shit. Also its hard to show how sexualized things are without, you know, showing how sexualized things are.


lookatmecats

beating a dog on camera to show that animal cruelty is bad


str8aura

[dont read through this if you grasp even the slightest idea of how awful he is](https://www.yahoo.com/news/dave-chappelle-says-terf-quitting-092301116.html)


TriPolar3849

Yikes, that joke about black people beating up asian people is absolutely awful.


pterrorgrine

>the LBGTQ [sic] community I don't think I get why there's a [sic] here


Slenveny

Dave Chappelle says it in the wrong order. It's normally lgbtq


pterrorgrine

how did i not see that


spike4972

I didn’t notice either


Lady_Galadri3l

because brains read things in clumps, not letter-by-letter, so if all the letters in the middle are there your brain just reads it correctly.


str8aura

Because the LGBTQ community is sick as hell


pterrorgrine

Good fukken point


XyleneCobalt

I think it's a Slipknot reference


NotSuluX

I don't see the huge problem? What about this makes him such an awful person?


PeterSchnapkins

Blatant hate, you would know


NotSuluX

Blatant strawman but ok then, mb for asking I guess


str8aura

-racism -transphobia -homophobia Really?


NotSuluX

But it's comedy, and he's admittedly pretty funny. I don't particularly like the guy but he's not the fucking devil. Some jokes miss but thats part of it Personally I think racism is hilarious, most of my favorite favorite skits (ie "Sex with black ppl" from key and peele are racist) but that doesn't make them "awful" people to me, and I'm part the targeted minority in these jokes Doesn't mean every racist joke is hilarious, but good comedy is good comedy. Just trying to understand the difference between say key and peele and Dave chapelle here


str8aura

Hes not the devil, but he punches down, and it makes him an asshole.


trans_NotAlt

At least Hannah gadsby is still cool.


retropillow

There is a way to make jokes about sensitive subjects. What he's doing is just straight up hateful propaganda. Also, further proof that all the LGBTQ "representation" in Netflix shows is just shitty pandering


Sapphosings

I agree with the first part but the second is kind of stupid. Acting like every instance of lgbtqia+ representation is pandering the kind of dumb take you'd see from all those alt-right armchair movie critics who act like gay people existing is "fulfilling an agenda." Just because the executives are bigoted doesn't mean literally everyone who writes shows that air on Netflix are doing so to pander. Do you think Todd from bojack or like the entirety of feel good or she-ra is pandering. Saying stuff like that really takes away from the work that queer artists have done.


retropillow

I'll be honest, I don't watch that many tv shows on Netflix, but most that I've seen were just.... if it's not pandering, it's just really badly written. There's also (from what I gathered) a lot more lesbians than gays, and to be honest, showing lesbians isn't on the same level of woke as showing gay men.


ReasyRandom

Even She-Ra?


CidIsASquid

She-Ra was made by DreamWorks Animation, not Netflix, it just was initially aired there.


Maland2016

Gonna let this Wikipedia bit speak for itself: when an exec asked what the rainbow in She-Ra’s S1 finale meant, Noelle replied, “The gay agenda.” So I think it’s pretty safe to say that yeah, She-Ra was *meant* to be that way: absolutely shamelessly queer.


Lady_Galadri3l

They did have to fight and fight hard to get the rep they did in She-Ra though.


batti03

Given how much they had to essentially back-door the queer representation in She-Ra, not even that series


ReasyRandom

It's sad. Netflix has some really good programs, but I fear that it becomes increasingly more rational to stop supporting them altogether.


rubexbox

[I feel like this video is appropriate.](https://youtu.be/7lUfWEVpO90)


ImGettingParanoid

The second worst implication of this post, besides Netflix being terrible, is that more people will be exposed to *365 Days*.


PlusSizedPunk

You mean the hit program that teaches the best way to get back for SA is spending his money?


Rocatex

i watched daves stand up and i really dont think he knows what terf means


TheDarwinist42

Ah, fuck... I saw George Takei's tweet where he says something akin "If Chappelle made fun of Jewish people or gay people this way, we'd be calling foul" as a screenshot on r/facepalm, but people were making fun of the tweet by saying "Tell me you've never seen a Chappelle special without telling me. He's an equal-opportunity joker." I thought that this was about his other special on Netflix that was already out. He made a very transphobic joke that made me so uncomfortable, I stopped watching it. As someone trans, it felt like he was punching down the whole time. Hearing that there's another special out where he does the same shit, gets reasonably called out on it, gets backed up by Netflix, and then Netflix fires a bunch of trans employees and allies because they protested... God, that's horrifying...


Hummerous

That perspective makes me want to tear my hair out every time. I just hope those people are 15 and growing, or 48 and dying.


TheDarwinist42

Honestly, my thoughts on it were, "Well, we should be calling him out on that, too! What's wrong with you guys?" Punching down is never okay, and saying that he does it to everyone just further proves that he's a hateful person, in my eyes. He has a blatant anti-Asian hate "joke" in the latest special, too, related to Covid.


ZengaStromboli

Fuck happened to Chappelle? Like, I know what happened, but the fuck lead to this? He used to be cool.


-abstruse-

shouldn't've put his name in the title; there are (were? it has died down a bit) losers from r all who literally search his name to spread their opinions everywhere--and they're not good


psychicamnesia

Oh no


maevestrom

I pray to God the fucking "let's debate your humanity" bullshit about this that persists everywhere and forces me to defend the fact that I dare exist DOESN'T SPREAD HERE. Can't believe a certified trans viewer and internet nonperson of Varnergate actually is relying on reddit as a haven from transphobia, but please no one do this. My brain hurts and my heart is TIIIIIIIRED


GraveyardGuide

I have some disagreements with this but it probably isn't the right context to voice them


Psychic_Slayer

Did anyone actually watch that special? Dave made it abundantly clear that this special was made with a peace offering to settle differences.


Leo-bastian

peace offering with whom? "sorry trans people i see you as subhuman but we can still be friends"


Psychic_Slayer

He clearly didn't say that in the special or things like that. Where is the subhuman part coming from? This is a genuine question.


Leo-bastian

hes associating himself with the TERF movement by calling himself "team TERF", which is known for its anti-trans stance (TE literally means trans exclusionist).


Alternative-Coffee51

"I come in peace, now sit down and listen whilst I describe in vivid detail how I do not respect you for the next hour... wait where are you going? Pfft, so much for the tolerant left"


XyleneCobalt

Yes and segregation is good for the negros /s


inhumanousss

its funny these people are so quick to call jkr a terf when all she said was females deserve their own spaces. shes said absolutely nothing about trans people


lawsofrobotics

That’s embarrassingly wrong. She has said A LOT of things about trans people. See her article that she tweeted with the title “TERF Wars.” Or, for a thorough and nuanced discussion of her transphobia, Contrapoints has a good video about her.


AskewPropane

“Females need their own spaces” has the really clear implicit message of “away from trans ‘women’, who’ve invaded previously good spaces”