T O P

Why so many foreigners live in Vietnam, while Vietnamese people think this is a very bad place to live?

Why so many foreigners live in Vietnam, while Vietnamese people think this is a very bad place to live?

Benis_Chomper

People who are disenchanted with western society come here. Why bust your balls stocking shelves at a grocery store 44 hours a week, where 100% of your money goes to rent, transportation, and food, when you can move to SEA and make the same amount working part time singing and dancing in front of toddlers? In my opinion the young generation of North America is coming to a tipping point. Most people don't find good jobs once they're out of uni, people who do can't fathom wasting their time on that shit for their whole lives. People aren't happy and they're in debt making no money. Teaching is a very attractive gig with few bars to entry. You make a lot of money after factoring in cost of living and you don't have to work nearly as much as back home. We're blind to the problems of Vietnamese society. We don't see the corruption unless it's a traffic ticket, we don't get paid a paltry sum for back breaking work and 12 hour days, (for the most part) we don't get run over by meth fueled bus drivers in the countryside. It's blissful ignorance for white people and a break from the problems of the west.


smilescart

The westerners don’t have to actually work like Vietnamese people do. Sure Vietnamese people have long lunch breaks and get to chill a lot but they’re still at their jobs for at least 10 hours most days.


Benis_Chomper

Yeah that's what I'm saying. We have it incredibly good and privileged compared to the locals. Foreigners work 10-20 hours a week and take home more than locals. When I said for the most part I meant we don't get slaughtered on the roads for the most part.


smilescart

Yeah the countryside is another world in Vietnam. I spent some time south of Saigon near Tre Vinh and the standard of living is much lower than it is in the bigger cities. I didn’t see any meth fueled semis but I can imagine with how crazy they drive to begin with.


thesensitivetoughguy

> meth. It actually happens much more than you would think. But here word does not spread like wildfire the way it does in the west. The third one is alcohol but my point is 23 people a day die on Vietnamese roads. I was actually hit by a scooter in Saigon last week and I broke many ribs and tore muscle under my armpit. He got off the bike and got up in my face to fight (?) but when I showed a bit of aggressiveness by jumping up off the ground and chest bumping him he picked up his bike and took off like a little lady. The roads here are no paradise. https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/da-lat-accident-injures-five-driver-reckoned-high-on-meth-3894647.htmlhttps://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/truck-driver-in-deadly-accident-high-on-meth-3871886.htmlhttps://tuoitrenews.vn/news/society/20190617/woman-gets-35-years-over-fatal-dui-crash-in-ho-chi-minh-city/50354.html


TeHNeutral

Hmm does Thuỷ Nguyên count


NoobNup

> (for the most part) we don't get run over by meth fueled bus drivers in the countryside LMAO TRUE....So many accidents near my hometown in PHu bai (outside of Hue, which is right in the middle of High way 1, aka Quoc LO 1). right Next to the toll fee booth. So many deaths and accidents cause there are so many trucks and they drive like absolute maniacs...Cross the Roads there always terrifies me.


cuahieu

There's another element of favoritism for Caucasians going on throughout the entire country as well. This is not a criticism by any means, but you'll be hard pressed to deny that white folks benefit hugely from day to day hustles simply due to the color of your skin. People here associate being white with a lot of positive character traits, and oftentimes put you on a pedestal compared to the locals. Race is a very big factor that determines how easy your life would be in most SEA countries, but I feel like Western expats tend to conveniently ignore that bullet point whenever they try to defend their perspective.


Asian_Dragon

>but you'll be hard pressed to deny that white folks benefit hugely from day to day hustles simply due to the color of your skin. People here associate being white with a lot of positive character traits, and oftentimes put you on a pedestal compared to the locals. > >Race is a very big factor that determines how easy your life would be in most SEA countries, but I feel like Western expats tend to conveniently ignore that bullet point whenever they try to defend their perspective. How about one would be hard-pressed to find Vietnamese helping their own people? These defenseless little kids from poor families also tend to be sexually abused, kidnapped by sexual predators, pedophiles, and organ-harvesters in Vietnam and trafficked to China. Ironically, it took a sympathetic, compassionate white man to shine the spotlight on the degenerate epidemics (in a country of 100 million Asians who did completely nothing about the crisis) [https://archive.fo/KGJjq](https://archive.fo/KGJjq) What have you done to help any of these kids (or any other victims in Vietnam, for that matter)? Why don't you ask yourself that question instead of making race an issue the first thing your brain cells get activated and start attacking white people who actually helped them (and billions of others worldwide via numerous humanitarian endeavors throughout human history)?


Asian_Dragon

>but you'll be hard pressed to deny that white folks benefit hugely from day to day hustles simply due to the color of your skin. People here associate being white with a lot of positive character traits, and oftentimes put you on a pedestal compared to the locals. > >Race is a very big factor that determines how easy your life would be in most SEA countries, but I feel like Western expats tend to conveniently ignore that bullet point whenever they try to defend their perspective. While our utterly corrupt Commie comrades are busy spending $1 billion USD of taxpayers' money to build racetrack for Formula 1 race [http://archive.is/OBNZe](http://archive.is/OBNZe) and profit from it, they have been inhumanly refusing to help even the most vulnerable members of their society who could only rely on private charities, and none of the corrupt government agencies, for help **The elderly living in poverty, 70 to 90-year-old senior citizens living in communal slum selling lottery tickets for a living, making $5 per day** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmqYZT8ysQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmqYZT8ysQ) Are the utterly corrupt Vietnamese Commies white folks, since they are responsible for everything bad happened in this world, right? Which ones let their own kind withered, suffered, and died in neglect and desperation? Why don't you blame them? Other than making race an issue about everything like the fake news media wanted you to, have you helped any of these victims?


Asian_Dragon

>but you'll be hard pressed to deny that white folks benefit hugely from day to day hustles simply due to the color of your skin. People here associate being white with a lot of positive character traits, and oftentimes put you on a pedestal compared to the locals. > >Race is a very big factor that determines how easy your life would be in most SEA countries, but I feel like Western expats tend to conveniently ignore that bullet point whenever they try to defend their perspective. Are you blaming the market force at work by attacking the parents that want their kids to have the best possible education for their hard-earned money by sending them to schools taught by white people who tend to speak English with the correct pronunciation? Are you blaming white people for 'white privilege' after their leading the vast majority of discoveries in sciences, technology, and medicines which non-whites, 85% of world population have repeatedly benefited from for the last few millennia? Can you name any non-whites who found any cures for the top 20 fatal diseases in the world? Understand that without them and their medicines, it's likely neither you nor your family nor your ancestors would have even existed, due to influenza, bubonic plague, malaria [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-20/map-showing-where-malaria-is-present/8965404](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-20/map-showing-where-malaria-is-present/8965404), etc. [https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/87F5/production/\_90350843\_inventions.jpg](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/87F5/production/_90350843_inventions.jpg) At least try being fair if being grateful is too much to ask for. It's amazing how people even let the fake news media and not their critical thinking tell them what to believe nowadays. By the way, I am not white.


YordleSupremacist

True of "English teachers" from the US, but that's a specific demographic, although a large one. I've known qualified australian teachers wanting to live a year or two in Asia while working (in actual schools), professionals in different industries who married a vietnamese and settled here, as well as postgrad qualified native teachers of languages besides english. In my perspective, the "English teachers" crowd looks like what you described, but also often dabbles in weed, alcohol, seeing prostitutes and the like. Gives a trashy vibe tbh. It's not fair to the other foreigners who usually aren't like that in my experience.


kutiencon123

1$ = 23000₫ = 2 banh mi = a fkin dinner


BufferingPleaseWait

With egg!@! Amazes me how cheap it is to eat if you stay away from the white cloth....and new high-rise district shops.


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acid_minnelli

I lived in Vietnam for a year, love the country, would live there forever but I can’t handle the heat.


NoobNup

Funny, NYC heat is worse than vietnam heat for me. HEAT is no problem for me, BUT THE ROADS AND TRAFFIC Makes Vietnam unlivable for me. Whenever they get that fixed, i'll consider it a livable place. I don't want to feel like i'm going to die everytime i cross the streets


andcore

Same. The insane traffic is one of the biggest drawbacks. Air pollution. Too many people, too many bikes, no public transportation. Crazy in Saigon but worse in Hanoi, packed with narrower streets.


acid_minnelli

I really liked the roads and traffic. I think the mix of laid back and hectic is what I loved.


V0ct0r

Hell yeah. In fact, most of my extra classes are within 15 minutes of walking and my mom doesn't let me walk home in the evening because of the shitty traffic situation. btw, I don't think you need to scream that loud. don't use CAPS. I CAN HEAR YOU WITHOUT THE CAPS.


Ninhnguyenz

Have you ever come to Dalat city?


FujiToday

Even Da Lat is becoming hotter these days.


Ninhnguyenz

Yeah! But it's still way better than other parts of the country..


babymoremoretime

P


acid_minnelli

I never went which I regret. I was in Hanoi during winter and seeing Vietnamese people in coats took me by surprise.


eetandern

I'm from South West Florida so it just felt like home to me in Saigon.


acid_minnelli

Yeah I’m from England. My ideal hot temperature is like 25 Celsius.


JCharante

I am not American but I've been living in the US for a while (I'm also not Vietnamese, just to clarify). I know you didn't mention the US, but a lot of places in the northern parts of the US are pretty bad compared to summer in Ha Noi. This is because they do not have AC since it is only really hot for a month or two. In addition there are no trees outside, so when you are outside you can feel the sun burning your skin due to the lack of shade. In addition, it is hot in the summer and very cold in the winter, so you lose your tolerance for the heat. I greatly prefer the weather in Ha Noi over the Massachusetts area. Edit: One last thing. It's also about your mindset. If you could be anywhere in the world today, and you choose to spend it in Ha Noi, then the heat isn't really noticable, because you get to experience the heat (as opposed to have it thrown at you).


Asian_Dragon

>If you could be anywhere in the world today, and you choose to spend it in Ha Noi, then the heat isn't really noticable, because you get to experience the heat (as opposed to have it thrown at you). Do you know that **Hanoi is currently the 2nd most polluted capital city in South East Asia and 12th in the world** [https://archive.is/2Srgj](https://archive.is/2Srgj)?


JCharante

Woo not number #1!


YeOldeAsian

My high school ( a local Vietnamese school ) the teachers straight up refuse any gifts from student and parent.


Asian_Dragon

>Your kids need to get into good school and all the envelop system which I hope one day will disappear of course. Wishful thinking is nice to have, of course ​ >But gradually when the salary is going up and the government is going more towards no tolerance against corruption, then it will not be too bad. Salaries have gone up alright, but still at bottom of the pack as usual [http://archive.is/ym3Sp](https://archive.is/ym3Sp). Thanks to utterly corrupt Vietnamese Commies in charge, Vietnam has **2nd lowest productivity in Asia**[http://archive.is/8GcwR](https://archive.is/8GcwR) with **labor productivity only 1/18th of Singapore, 1/16th of Malaysia and 1/3 of Thailand and China** [https://archive.fo/KGJjq](https://archive.is/KGJjq) ​ >Give them time. Good luck with that thinking! 50 years wasn't long enough for them, right? :) Remember to say this again when you won't have a country to call home once the utterly corrupt Vietnamese Commie traitors sell it to China, again [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw)


VapeThisBro

Perspective. Every country has people who think its a terrible place to live. Vietnam may be better or worst than where ever they come from, but based on their experience, it could be much better. Maybe Vietnam has something that their home did not. Also not every Vietnamese person thinks its bad. I am Viet Kieu. My family in Vietnam can immigrate to the US because we will sponsor them to but they refuse to leave Vietnam. They have been to America before but they prefer the pace of life in Vietnam.


messiaenk

Yes, my wife will follow me in France. But her mother would rather die in Vietnam, she really love Vietnam. I think that small amount of the population would like to leave, it's true in every country. But it's normal, and, we never hear story about staying in a country, just leaving, so it is a bit biased.


_JamesPhan

I'll second that one. My girlfriend's parents went to Texas, said screw this, and went back. But then in their situation, they're already old. Whole life is in Vietnam. Go to Texas, know nobody, can't really drive well, and spend their time what? Stuck in their daughter's house?


Asian_Dragon

>Also not every Vietnamese person thinks its bad. I am Viet Kieu. My family in Vietnam can immigrate to the US because we will sponsor them to but they refuse to leave Vietnam. They have been to America before but they prefer the pace of life in Vietnam. 2 reasons. Most older Vietnamese cannot speak English well and feel very uncomfortable and even stressed out living in US [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYcTIBkAqC4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYcTIBkAqC4), especially if their acquaintances still live in Vietnam. Therefore, the reason has more to do with socialization than anything else. Your parents can afford living in Vietnam with their savings but most young Vietnamese can't, unless they have relatives abroad who send remittances back home. America is not regarded as land of opportunity by people worldwide for no reason. Only those who can (and want to) take those opportunities will flourish. USA has trouble keeping foreigners out of its border, while the rest of the world, including Vietnamese Commies, has trouble keeping its citizens inside its border. 'Nuff said.


VapeThisBro

Actually, for my family its neither of those reasons. The reason my family members in Vietnam don't want to move to the US is because they own factories in Vietnam. Its hard to run a multi-million dollar business if you move countries and can't go to your business. Those reasons you listed may be true for other people but not for my family.


Asian_Dragon

>The reason my family members in Vietnam don't want to move to the US is because they own factories in Vietnam. Its hard to run a **multi-million dollar business** if you move countries and can't go to your business There, you even said so yourself. You simply proved my point. Your parents wanted to stay in Vietnam because they could afford to. I wouldn't be surprised if your parents and/or your relatives are not associated with the Party in some way. But only 5% of Vietnam's population could have things easy this way, at the expense of 95% of population. Not everyone has that luxury. The vast majority actually doesn't. That's how it usually is in corrupt Commie Vietnam. Has been for that last 50 years.


VapeThisBro

not my parents. My parents live in America. It is their siblings, cousins, etc. My parents left when Saigon fell. I get what your saying though. I understand the wage differences.


NylanDapa

>America is not regarded as land of opportunity by people worldwide for no reason I'm sorry, but that sounds like it's come straight out of a propaganda book. The USA is not regarded as the 'land of opportunity' to anyone but Americans and those in economically challenged countries & societies. If you enter into American society firmly entrenched within the working class or lower middle class - which constitutes a huge amount of those who emigrate - you will very likely struggle. Nowdays, there is severely limited social mobility in the USA. Economic data for long-term wage trends make for horrific reading. And the golden age for the middle class is well and truly over. Once upon a time it resembled a land of opportunity, but certainly not now. I'm not anti-American at all. I've worked there and I have countless American friends I love. But it's not this mythological utopia it's made out to be.


Asian_Dragon

>I'm sorry, but that sounds like it's come straight out of a propaganda book. **The USA is not regarded as the 'land of opportunity' to anyone but Americans and those in economically challenged countries & societies.** > >If you enter into American society firmly entrenched within the working class or lower middle class - which constitutes a huge amount of those who emigrate - you will very likely struggle. Nowdays, there is severely limited social mobility in the USA. Economic data for long-term wage trends make for horrific reading. And the golden age for the middle class is well and truly over. Once upon a time it resembled a land of opportunity, but certainly not now. > >I'm not anti-American at all. I've worked there and I have countless American friends I love. But it's not this mythological utopia it's made out to be. Well, I also indicated 'Only those who can (and want to) take those opportunities will flourish'. The immigrants to USA today are not as motivated, hardworking, moral/ethical, and/nor talented as those from the previous waves of immigrants. Western (UK, Ireland, France, Germany), Northern (Scandinavian countries), Eastern (Poland), and Southern (Italy) Europeans took turns migrated to USA in the first 4 waves [https://www.preceden.com/timelines/29989-waves-of-immigration-in-america](https://www.preceden.com/timelines/29989-waves-of-immigration-in-america), but they still wan to get to USA for different reasons: The Muslim savages want to dominate the rest of the world via strategic over reproduction and migration (hijrah), replace US Constitution with their Sharia BS [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHQWezK1ccY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHQWezK1ccY) and mass murder as many kuffar (non-Muslims) as possible, preferably close to Ramadan so that they would go to Paradise and have sex with 72 promiscuous goats after death ;), and many of the illegal aliens from US Southern border just want social benefits and recapture US Western territory ('Make California Mexico Again' via La Raza). How do you reconcile the fact that **US remains top choice as destination for immigrants worldwide** [https://assets.weforum.org/editor/large\_PmFekBgDqscDMcNti9ZynkO6dXFn2FH-vLA\_iPjExak.PNG](https://assets.weforum.org/editor/large_PmFekBgDqscDMcNti9ZynkO6dXFn2FH-vLA_iPjExak.PNG) (just like it has been so since the birth of USA 243 years ago). Are you saying these people still want to migrate to USA mostly because of the above reasons and not because it's the land of opportunity?


[deleted]

Foreigners can make the same amount of money in Nam as they can overseas but the expense of living is low so they get a bang for their buck. Whereas Viets think they can make more money overseas but never take into account the living expenses.


offtheplug436

When rent is 15 times cheaper, it’s hard not to love the place


BufferingPleaseWait

I'd love to find a job in VN paying 6 figures for the work I do!!!


[deleted]

I’m talking more for the lower and middle bracket earners.


BufferingPleaseWait

$60-$70K - ? Not teaching, tour guiding, or running a little hotel...likely not even in supply chain for Hyatt Hotels? Even $3,000 a month is a lot of $ in VN but not if you have to pay half that in rents...I mean, there's slumming, and then there's slumming. But the new high-rise condos run $125k to $250k in cost so that's a bit of mortgage.


[deleted]

Slumming it? Mate 1/4 of your salary will get you a nice place as a foreigner. That leaves you still with $1500 to play with, average Viet only makes about $300 in HCMC. Where foreigners bleed money is air cons, partying, and food- so instead of eating the local grub you get idiots who go looking for stupid things like quinoa and salads and pies from back home. I saw a French ask once where he could get proper baguettes from. So if $2000 isn’t going to survive you for a month in Nam, it won’t survive you anywhere really.


BufferingPleaseWait

Tous Les Juors makes pretty good bread but WTF - SGN bread is some of the best in the world if you ask me...granted it's hard to find artisan ground multigrain breads but yeah - proper baguette? He's used to those 4 foot long dried out crunchies I guess, or maybe something not coated in motorbike exhaust.... I call it slumming when I don't have proper A/C, decent water pressure, clean bathrooms, and a bed that isn't a plank of wood. I have been to VN 20 times and stayed in a good many places for $20 a night down in the steamy Mekong and I can handle it for a night or two on business but I'm not even going to make that my lifestyle. But sure, you could stop wearing clean shirts and turn your underwear inside out in between washings to live the VN way but judging by the way they "hustle" they aren't too keen with their lot either....yes, $2k is better that $200....


[deleted]

Mate, every time I go back, my Aunty gets me about 6 Ao Ba Ba made up, which I wear 60% of the time, it’s the most comfortable things ever. I go through towns and cities in them, people laughing thinking I’m some country hick and being male wearing it- I’m like a unicorn. Having said that one thing they don’t do is rip me off, I also get into attractions for free sometimes because of it. I use to be like you with the aircon, but I can sleep with just a fan now perfectly, I even have to turn the stupid thing off because it’s cold. I too stay in the Delta, only difference is I try to acclimatise myself as quickly as I can. Cold showers over warm ones, about a week and yeah. Also Viets sweat minimal (only my nose) so am rarely effected, BO wise I don’t pong as much easy neither.


BufferingPleaseWait

I aint never seen a Viet sweat....not even in the middle of a good romp, chics stay dry as a bone. Ao Ba Ba - kinda like a Tunic...hell anything thin and airy, linen like, open slats for vent will help but as a fat American I gotta dump then weight!


[deleted]

It’s elastic pants Mate, off and on in seconds.


BufferingPleaseWait

I looked online - showed a shirt like thing...hmmmm....yeah I guess like loose yoga pants - but I wear shorts most of the time...fuck it. Pants? I get so hot it's not enjoyable at all....


badtradesguy

lets be real, on average, the foreigners who immigrate to vietnam from the west arent generally the most skilled or intelligent. theyre looking for where they can get the most for what they can offer.


ckitano88

Where are you seeing new highrises for 125-250 it aint in SGN. New high rises are consistently over 350k Im on a wait list for 4 new buildings not a single one will cost less than 350 one was originally 350 they postponed the ballot and new estimates are 550! Non CBD maybe but 125k maybe a studio im an older building. But hey if you know some new ones like that, link those bad boys up!


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ckitano88

Haha no they cant (depending on what you do) seen then but competition is super high Tons of western companies want to pay local manager salary 3000 ish as a benefit for being western


MelodicBrush

Living expenses aren't that much higher in Europe, quality food is even cheaper, only rent is significantly more expensive. Sure you can't live off $100, but neither can a foreigner in VN. But for 500$, you'll be comfortable in Germany, but you can easily make $1500 doing easy menial jobs like Amazon. Which means you'll be swimming in money if you're used to the living standard in Vietnam. The more west you go the higher the standard of living, hence why no American would be okay living off $500 in Vietnam, despite that literally being the upperclass range already. But you can definitely find Vietnamese living off impossibly small wages in the west, because they don't require your stupendous standard of living.


NoobNup

$500 = living comfortable in germany? ARE YOU SURE? Where? in the countryside of germany? Ain't no way you living comfortable for $500 in frankfurt bro


MelodicBrush

Why bring Frankfurt in though? There are literally thousands of cheaper places. Million of Germans live on minijob alone (450 euro). I lived on my shitty minijob which brought me around 350 euro a month. I could've probably stretched my budget much further, Aldi is so cheap that if you meal plan you can eat for less than $1 per meal, and you're still eating well regulated healthy food. To get high quality like that in Vietnam for that price would be impossible. It's all about standard of living, you need protein, fat and carbs and a place to live, anything else is extra. You don't need your own place, you can share with friends/flatmates. You don't need to use any services you can get everything done yourself (like a haircut)


perldawg

I have recently returned to the US from a year in Vietnam. My monthly expenses (not including travel) were right around $500. I feel like I lived pretty well on that, could have done it cheaper if I never went out to eat and only cooked at home. I do not think $500/mo would get me very far in Germany.


MelodicBrush

I live for less in Germany, the point is a Vietnamese person can make 1500 here easily, whereas at home a Vietnamese person will be happy to make 300.


perldawg

Ah. Claro.


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messiaenk

I've been working in Vietnam for 5 months but decided to come back France. It's an amazing country and I'm very sad to have to come back to France, and, I am currently drinking Vietnamese cold coffee I've imported and made by myself while writing this comment so you are so damn accurate.


smilescart

Dude I lived in VN for 3 months and I miss my iced coffees so much. And my banh mis!!!


Iccarys

Why did you decide to come back?


messiaenk

I couldn't find a job that pay me enough as I just graduated IT (1 month of salary for the ticket in order to visit my family), while I'm able to save up 2 month of my vietnamese salary while working in France. So that's a temporary solution until I manage to find decent solutions


Asian_Dragon

>I couldn't find a job that pay me enough Perhaps the same problem for people from Switzerland or Scandinavian countries living in France? :) There is a reason why companies move to Vietnam from China after Chinese wages started to increase.


alotmorealots

There really aren't that many, it might just feel that way if you communicate with them often. > The number increased from more than 12,600 in 2004 to more than 83,500 in 2015, the ministry has said. > Chinese workers make up 30.9 per cent of Vietnam’s foreign workforce, with 25,700 people, the ministry reported at a workshop held in Hanoi on Monday. > South Koreans number over 15,300, Taiwanese more than 10,700 and Japanese over 7,900. (which is to say that 70% of the foreign workforce is of Asian descent, and not what most people think of when they talk about expats) > HCM City is home to the largest number of foreign workers, with more than 20,300 people, accounting for 24.3 per cent, followed by Binh Duong Province with more than 12,000 people (14.4 per cent), Ha Tinh 7,000 people (8.4 per cent), Hanoi 6,386 people (7.6 per cent) and Dong Nai 6,205 people (7.4 per cent). https://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/society/180670/number-of-foreign-workers-in-vietnam-on-the-rise.html


BufferingPleaseWait

Wow I would have thought much more by the way you see so many round-eyes in D-1...I stay near Little Tokyo so see ample Japanese and Koreans hitting the golf courses and then staggering into the ramen stands at midnight....many more western tourists and workers arrive last 3-5 years.


yudiahk

I have a feeling that foreigners are always treated more easily and favorably than Vietnamese, maybe this happens in other countries, not just in Vietnam.


NoobNup

No Lie, Vietnamese people would treat foreigners, white or black, better than Viet kieus. In terms of treament, i label it like this 1) white foreigner 2) Japanese or Korean foreigner 2) hispanic/latino Foreigner 4) Black Foreigner 5) viet Kieus 6) Other viet Locals 7) Cambodians LMAO


Grubster11

....100) Chinese


AKsuited1934

Accurate


zPetrichor

Bump the Cambodians up as we're tryna build image here and replace them with the Chinese


DanishJohn

Its very obvious in Japan as well.


smilescart

Absolutely. I went there with my girlfriend (who is Vietnamese- American) to teach English. They were super racist towards her when she was trying to find teaching jobs and really put her down when she spoke English more properly than me.


BufferingPleaseWait

Ahhhh, the old Viet Kiew treatment....


Asian_Dragon

>I have a feeling that foreigners are always treated more easily and favorably than Vietnamese, maybe this happens in other countries, not just in Vietnam. It's a fact, but the reason seems not without merit, however, especially if one really thinks about it.


gothboydick

The coffee , tropical beaches and food and low cost of living perhaps? That’s what I loved about it


slutty_marshmallows

It's a bit if a stretch to generalize that all vietnamese think it's a bad place to live. My wife has traveled the world extensively and wouldn't live anywhere else besides maybe Singapore. Vietnamese love Vietnam. There are a few that would rather live elsewhere, but they're by no means a majority.


nhansieu1

Generally it's a good place to live, but if you want a bright career, it's not here.


Asian_Dragon

>My wife has traveled the world extensively and wouldn't live anywhere else besides maybe Singapore. She must love the living cost disparity more than the pollution and censorship and the fact that Vietnam might be sold to China again some day by the corrupt Vietnamese Commie traitors, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw), no? Why doesn't she relinquish her current citizenship to become Vietnamese? ​ >Vietnamese love Vietnam. There are a few that would rather live elsewhere, but they're by no means a majority. You can tell that to any average workers in Vietnam who is currently psyched raking in $150 per month, only higher than in Cambodia and Myanmar [http://archive.is/ym3Sp](http://archive.is/ym3Sp)


zPetrichor

>She must love the living cost disparity more than the pollution and censorship and the fact that Vietnam might be sold to China again some day by the corrupt Vietnamese Commie traitors. There are a few points I would like to clarify here. 1/ The only places that are noticeably more polluted are the center of Saigon, Hanoi, Danang and Can Tho. I live roughly 15 minutes from the Saigon city centre in an area with a lot of trees and I don't notice pollution at all. 2/ Since I'm fairly neutral I won't comment much on the motives of protest you mentioned, but given how there is clearly proof that the riots were staged by unsafe forces I think my opinions on this matter might be a bit biased. I am against giving China the rights to invest in our SEZs no matter how much money we lose but I still think the violent protests aren't justifiable. 3/ Censorship? Clearly basing on the way you're inferring this you don't have a clear understanding of how the Vietnamese internet censorship regulations work. The "Vietnam firewall" is like the "China firewall" but built out of paper. The only websites that get blocked are those criticizing the government with unreasonable claims, heck I'd bet the government won't block the use of critical arguments with the aim to collectively improve the situation whatsoever; Those are literally the only sites that are blocked. Nearly every website you can think of that doesn't fall into the above isn't blocked, at all. Viets use Facebook and Instagram regularly, the MOFA of Vietnam has an official Twitter account, even porn websites are fully accessible smh. What's the problem here? >Vietnamese love Vietnam. There are a few that would rather live elsewhere, but they're by no means a majority. I actually don't agree with this too. A lot of the people I know would rather take on the challenge of going abroad despite being fully aware of how tough life overseas can be. Again, it's all about you.


Asian_Dragon

>1/ The only places that are noticeably more polluted are the center of Saigon, Hanoi, Danang and Can Tho. I live roughly 15 minutes from the Saigon city centre in an area with a lot of trees and I don't notice pollution at all. **Hanoi is the 6th most polluted city in the world** [https://archive.is/ScT3v](https://archive.is/ScT3v), **2nd most polluted city in South East Asia**, after Jakarta, Indonesia [https://vcdn-english.vnecdn.net/2019/03/06/Screenshot-1-5161-1551817088.png](https://vcdn-english.vnecdn.net/2019/03/06/Screenshot-1-5161-1551817088.png) It's interesting to note that Saigon's overall pollution (air, water, noise, etc., not just air pollution) is perceived as 10th worst in the world, even worse than Hanoi's [https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings.jsp?title=2019](https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings.jsp?title=2019) and actually worse this year than last year [https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings.jsp?title=201](https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings.jsp?title=2019)8 ​ >2/ Since I'm fairly neutral I won't comment much on the motives of protest you mentioned, but given how there is clearly proof that the riots were staged by unsafe forces I think my opinions on this matter might be a bit biased. I am against giving China the rights to invest in our SEZs no matter how much money we lose but I still think the violent protests aren't justifiable. Were you a little biased too knowing that this wasn't the first time utterly corrupt Vietnamese Commies tried to sell Vietnam to China for bribes? Here's Pham Van Dong sold Spratly Islands to China for bribes [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly\_Islands\_dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute) Were you a little biased too knowing that the utterly corrupt Vietnamese Commies treated the lives of their fellow Vietnamese citizens like pawns or used condoms, by ordering them to be unarmed and exposed as baits just to score political political points and win sympathy from international community against military rivals. Here they ordered 64 unfortunate Vietnamese farmers-turned-soldiers as sitting ducks for target practice by Chinese Navy and their 37-mm anti-aircraft guns, no less [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc)? You and/or your family members or relatives might be next, but who knows, these could be stated by uh, unsafe forces, right? ​ >3/ Censorship? Clearly basing on the way you're inferring this you don't have a clear understanding of how the Vietnamese internet censorship regulations work. The "Vietnam firewall" is like the "China firewall" but built out of paper. The only websites that get blocked are those criticizing the government with unreasonable claims, heck I'd bet the government won't block the use of critical arguments with the aim to collectively improve the situation whatsoever; Those are literally the only sites that are blocked. Nearly every website you can think of that doesn't fall into the above isn't blocked, at all. Viets use Facebook and Instagram regularly, the MOFA of Vietnam has an official Twitter account, even porn websites are fully accessible smh. What's the problem here? What's the problem? Maybe you can ask the other 190 countries in the world that question Vietnam is *only* the 6th most censored country [https://archive.is/o3rc1](https://archive.is/o3rc1) in the world (incidentally same rank as its Hanoi is the 6th most polluted capital city in the world [https://archive.is/ScT3v](https://archive.is/ScT3v)), right? 1. [**Eritrea**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%231) 2. [**North Korea**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%232) 3. [**Turkmenistan**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%233) 4. [**Saudi Arabia**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%234) 5. [**China**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%235) 6. [**Vietnam**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%236) 7. [**Iran**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%237) 8. [**Equatorial Guinea**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%238) 9. [**Belarus**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%239) 10. [**Cuba**](https://archive.is/o/o3rc1/https://cpj.org/reports/2019/09/10-most-censored-eritrea-north-korea-turkmenistan-journalist.php%2310) ' **Saudi Arabia, China, Vietnam, and Iran are especially adept at practicing these two brands of censorship: jailing and harassing journalists and their families, while also engaging in digital monitoring and censorship of the internet and social media**. ' Indeed, who says censorship is only online? [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/05/viet-nam-surge-number-prisoners-conscience-new-research-shows/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/05/viet-nam-surge-number-prisoners-conscience-new-research-shows/) **Viet Nam: Surge in number of prisoners of conscience, new research show** It seems the rest of nearly 200 countries in the world would not agree with you on your assessment. Vietnamese Commie fascist regime is increasingly cracking on freedom of speech and freedom of the press harder than ever before [https://archive.is/4GLuX#selection-435.0-443.141](https://archive.is/4GLuX#selection-435.0-443.141) “**Facebook now meets 70 to 75% of the Vietnamese government’s requests, compared to around 30% earlier**, information minister Nguyen Manh Hung said at a parliament meeting in Hanoi. Hung was referring to government requests for Facebook restrictions, meaning a piece of content posted to the website which cannot be viewed in some countries because it is deemed to violate local laws. **Facebook said in May it had increased the amount of content to which it restricted access in Vietnam by over 500% in the second half of 2018.** **'Google’s YouTube now meets 80%-85% of the government’s requests, up from 60% a year earlier, Hung told the meeting'** ​ [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vietnam-cyber-google/vietnam-ramps-up-pressure-on-googles-youtube-advertisers-idUSKCN1TD0FC](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vietnam-cyber-google/vietnam-ramps-up-pressure-on-googles-youtube-advertisers-idUSKCN1TD0FC) 'Vietnam’s information ministry has identified about 55,000 YouTube videos it deemed “harmful”, or in violation of Vietnamese law, the agency said. Of these, 8,000 were deleted at the request of Vietnamese authorities'


zPetrichor

>Hanoi is the 6th most polluted city in the world https://archive.is/ScT3v, 2nd most polluted city in South East Asia, after Jakarta, Indonesia https://vcdn-english.vnecdn.net/2019/03/06/Screenshot-1-5161-1551817088.png To be fair I did not claim that the pollution levels of Saigon/Hanoi are low, pollution only occurs during rush hour and is closely focused inside the central districts. I did clearly admit that central Saigon/Hanoi/Danang is noticeably more polluted, so what's your point here? >Vietnam is *only* the 6th most censored country [https://archive.is/o3rc1](https://archive.is/o3rc1) in the world (incidentally same rank as its Hanoi is the 6th most polluted capital city in the world [https://archive.is/ScT3v](https://archive.is/ScT3v)), right? Yes and I'm guessing you took the data from [Amnesty.org](https://Amnesty.org), one of the most biased and subjective websites currently available, well done! Don't you find it paradoxical how Vietnam censors A LOT less stuff than China yet still manages to climb up the ranks and stop right behind China? Odd. >Vietnamese Commie fascist regime is increasingly cracking on freedom of speech and freedom of the press harder than ever before [https://archive.is/4GLuX#selection-435.0-443.141](https://archive.is/4GLuX#selection-435.0-443.141) Oh my god the **VIETNAMESE COMMIE FASCIST REGIME!!!!** Let's make a new political party and call it the National Socialist Communist party of Vietnam! Why are you taking two extremist ideologies together, combining them to create a "Headline worthy statement", yikes. >'Vietnam’s information ministry has identified about 55,000 YouTube videos it deemed “harmful”, or in violation of Vietnamese law, the agency said. Of these, 8,000 were deleted at the request of Vietnamese authorities' Again, referring to my aforementioned statement, the only websites that get blocked are the ones directly criticizing the government in a purely subjective manner. Vietnam's policy towards criticism has greatly changed lately, highly favoring those that are constructive and beneficial to the country. There is a reason most citizens don't care much about which political party leading them and why, and that is because they find it unnecessary to argue much on "Which political system is best" but we're more inclined to criticize on specific problems that persist on the society to this day. Politics isn't the problem, bad management is. >Were you a little biased too knowing that the utterly corrupt Vietnamese Commies treated the lives of their fellow Vietnamese citizens like pawns or used condoms, by ordering them to be unarmed and exposed as baits just to score political political points and win sympathy from international community against military rivals. Here they ordered 64 unfortunate Vietnamese farmers-turned-soldiers as sitting ducks for target practice by Chinese Navy and their 37-mm anti-aircraft guns, no less [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc)? The Marines were shot because they knew the consequences of firing back - a clever move compared to its aggressive approach. A small country having been torn apart by two deadly wars would rather choose to compromise and settle for peace, right? If we had fired our guns, we would've provoked them to go all-out. >(...)exposed as baits just to score political points and win sympathy from international community against military rivals. Based on what I've said above you'd think opening fire is a good idea huh? >Were you a little biased too knowing that this wasn't the first time utterly corrupt Vietnamese Commies tried to sell Vietnam to China for bribes? Here's Pham Van Dong sold Spratly Islands to China for bribes [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly\_Islands\_dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute) Oh my god, Donald Trump signed a bill to sell the US to China! This bill is unofficial and not verified by any governmental organizations whatsoever except for the Chinese government! Surely this bill should be legitimate! We're all gonna be sold to China!


Asian_Dragon

>To be fair I did not claim that the pollution levels of Saigon/Hanoi are low, pollution only occurs during rush hour Yeah ok. So pollution of cities are comparatively measured only during rush hours. Whatever dude! :) ​ >and is closely focused inside the central districts. I did clearly admit that central Saigon/Hanoi/Danang is noticeably more polluted, so what's your point here? Yeah ok. So pollution of cities are comparatively measured only on their peripheries. Whatever dude! :) If not, what's the merit of making that point? ​ >Yes and I'm guessing you took the data from [Amnesty.org](https://amnesty.org/), one of the most biased and subjective websites currently available, well done! Don't you find it paradoxical how Vietnam censors A LOT less stuff than China yet still manages to climb up the ranks and stop right behind China? Odd. Huh? Why guessing? Committee to Protect Journalists is not [Amnesty.org](https://Amnesty.org). It clearly said Committee to Protect Journalists in the article, on Committee to Protect Journalists website. It's either you can't read or you can lie. Nice deception technique, comrade zPetrichor ;) ​ >Oh my god the **VIETNAMESE COMMIE FASCIST REGIME!!!!** Let's make a new political party and call it the National Socialist Communist party of Vietnam! Why are you taking two extremist ideologies together, combining them to create a "Headline worthy statement", yikes. Your statements show that you don't even understand what fascism means. Regimes currently controlling China and Vietnam are no longer Communist (despite their names), since they allow private enterprises while still controlling the means of production. However, the authoritarian dictatorship with widespread and systemic censorship and cracking down of free speech and freedom of the press remain, collectively displaying typical characteristics of fascist regimes. IQ and critical thinking skill are severely lacked these days. So sad! :( Try to be an independent thinker for once if you can. It's probably a lot easier to simply swallow propaganda without cerebration, especially if one grew up with one's current comrades while one's family and relatives have benefited greatly from the system and status quo, associated with privileged Party members, and one hardly care about anyone else, 95% of the population be damned, right comrade zPetrichor ;) ​ >Again, referring to my aforementioned statement, the only websites that get blocked are the ones directly criticizing the government in a purely subjective manner. Nonsense! Had that been all they cared about, the corrupt Vietnamese Commies would not have tightened up censorship even more, gone as far as mandated Social Media companies like Facebook to keep data servers inside Vietnam, so that these fascists would arrest dissenting Vietnamese patriots more easily. Nice try comrade zPetrichor ;) ​ >Vietnam's policy towards criticism has greatly changed lately, highly favoring those that are constructive and beneficial to the country. More nonsense! See above. Nice try comrade zPetrichor ;) ​ >There is a reason most citizens don't care much about which political party leading them and why Says who? ​ >, and that is because they find it unnecessary to argue much on "Which political system is best" but we're more inclined to criticize on specific problems that persist on the society to this day. ​ Well, they care about what political system consisting traitors that sell Vietnam to China though. Nice try comrade zPetrichor ;) What still rings true, is the fact that the immoral & corrupt Vietnamese Commie traitors in the government always want to sell their own homeland and their countrymen to China in exchange for hefty bribes from their Chinese paymasters, but the Vietnamese citizens didn't let them, fortunately. They would have succeeded in quietly selling Vietnam to China (under the guise of 99-year leases), had it not been for the widespread national protests from furious Vietnamese citizens just last year [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw) Similarly, they would have succeeded in quietly replacing the current modern Vietnamese alphabet, which has been used for close to 400 years without issue, with a Chinese one, had it not been for the widespread national protests from furious Vietnamese citizens just last year [http://archive.is/1xkn2](http://archive.is/1xkn2) **What does this mean? If the Vietnamese citizens do not remain constantly vigilant under their Commie treasonous rulers, one day these poor souls wake up not only losing their own country but also losing their own mother tongue, unfortunately. If this doesn't send a chill down the spine of any Vietnamese citizens, nothing else will!** ​ >Politics isn't the problem, bad management is. Yeah ok. Treating your own citizens like used condoms and selling out your motherland and mother-tongue to essentially your lifelong enemy are considered just bad management now, not treason nor politics. Thanks much for clearing that up for us dumb readers, comrade zPetrichor ;) ​ >The Marines were shot because they knew the consequences of firing back - a clever move compared to its aggressive approach. A small country having been torn apart by two deadly wars would rather choose to compromise and settle for peace, right? If we had fired our guns, we would've provoked them to go all-out. Huh? What are you even talking about? It wasn't decision of these poor Vietnamese sailors conscripted from poor families in Vietnam to have their lives utilized like used condoms by their calculated Commie butcher for commanding officer. They were ordered by their cruel Commie commander to stand in shallow water, unarmed. to purposely be targets for Chinese Navy. Yeah ok, so you are saying these poor Vietnamese sailors didn't want to be shot dead, so they volunteered to disarm themselves, stood in shallow water, to be shot dead? Sounds completely logical! Thanks for making sense for us comrade zPetrichor ;) ​ >Based on what I've said above you'd think opening fire is a good idea huh? Who said anything about firing? The point is the inhuman, corrupt Vietnamese Commies in charge dispense the lives of their own citizens like used toilet paper or used condoms to protect only themselves. Firing or not firing is irrelevant to that fact. ​ >Oh my god, Donald Trump signed a bill to sell the US to China! This bill is unofficial and not verified by any governmental organizations whatsoever except for the Chinese government! Surely this bill should be legitimate! We're all gonna be sold to China! Huh? When did Trump do that? Pham Van Dong did though. You are not making sense. Are you on meth? Is that what you spent your privileged wealth on these days, comrade zPetrichor ;) Maybe you should spend that money on helping your own fellow citizens, yes? While our utterly corrupt Commie comrades are busy spending $1 billion USD of taxpayers' money to build racetrack for Formula 1 race [http://archive.is/OBNZe](http://archive.is/OBNZe) and profit from it, they have been inhumanly refusing to help even the most vulnerable members of their society who could only rely on private charities, and none of the corrupt government agencies, for help **The elderly living in poverty, 70 to 90-year-old senior citizens living in communal slum selling lottery tickets for a living, making $5 per day** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmqYZT8ysQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmqYZT8ysQ)


zPetrichor

> Your statements show that you don't even understand what fascism means. Regimes currently controlling China and Vietnam are no longer Communist (despite their names), since they allow private enterprises while still controlling the means of production. However, the authoritarian dictatorship with widespread and systemic censorship and cracking down of free speech and freedom of the press remain, collectively displaying typical characteristics of fascist regimes. "Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation. Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and interventionist economic policies. Fascism also endorses authoritarianism and most importantly, racism" Vietnam doesn't fall into any of the points I've mentioned. The current status of Vietnam can be considered as a totalitarian state going through neo-liberalization, while also gradually privatizing state-owned corporations. I have never mentioned that Vietnam doesn't crack down on free speech and freedom of the press, but this doesn't mean that it's a fascist trait? Some democratic, multi-party countries do it too and they're not by any means related to the alt-right. > Yeah ok. So pollution of cities are comparatively measured only on their peripheries. Whatever dude! :) If not, what's the merit of making that point? I'm not refuting your opinion, I just simply consider the way we measure pollution is still flawed and needs work. Obviously Saigona and Hanoi are severely polluted but I'm living right there and I only notice it because of the sheer number of traffic. I admit we're not doing good in terms of pollution and there should be a way to urge the government to take more drastic steps. > Huh? Why guessing? Committee to Protect Journalists is not [Amnesty.org](https://amnesty.org/). It clearly said Committee to Protect Journalists in the article, on Committee to Protect Journalists website. It's either you can't read or you can lie. Nice deception technique, comrade zPetrichor ;) Uhh so guessing is forbidden? Fine then? Nice use of ad hominem, very mature. For the record I'm not pro-communism in any way, shape or form. > Nonsense! Had that been all they cared about, the corrupt Vietnamese Commies would not have tightened up censorship even more, gone as far as mandated Social Media companies like Facebook to keep data servers inside Vietnam, so that these fascists would arrest dissenting Vietnamese patriots more easily. Nice try comrade zPetrichor ;) Facebook and Google have local servers at every corner of the world, I know for a fact that Google rents a lot of servers from Viettel WAYYY back. The fact that the CPV are trying to tell them to keep the data inside Vietnam is merely redundant and just shows how badly informed politicians here are aware of technology. Again you're just basing this out of assumptions. I've reread the Cybersecurity bill countless of times and the only thing I find uncomfortable with, is the act of relegating businesses. Our bill is MUCH more loose compared to the EU for instance. You must be the kind of people that went screaming around to everyone how "Facebook will get blocked after this bill takes affect" though right after 1/1/2019 literally nothing happened. > More nonsense! See above. Nice try comrade zPetrichor ;) Are you trying to refute my point? Haven't I stated clearly how constructed criticism is widely accepted in Vietnam and that the ones directly attacking the government by making controversial and outright claims are the only ones that get banned? Sorry for not being able to cite the source of this (You can Google it up) but Nguyễn Phú Trọng, the chairman of Vietnam and general secretary of the CPV, was aiming for democracy and clarity when he decided the National Assembly (NA) should publicize the new SEV and Cybersecurity bill, to gain feedback from the citizens, which lead to the riots afterwards. ALL of the NA meetings are broadcasted live on the media. Vietnam is aiming for clarity and liberalization and yet it seems like the false claims and fake news are stopping it. >Says who? Literally everyone I know of pays little attention on how the country is a totalitarian state, but they always complain on the specific issues the party has and society in general. This behavior explains how the party functions like a big-tent party, with unofficial factions everywhere. Weird generalization, but most of the Viets don't really care about "Communism" anymore despite it being in the name. They just want something that works and they see portrayal of riots as bad.


zPetrichor

> Yeah ok. Treating your own citizens like used condoms and selling out your motherland and mother-tongue to essentially your lifelong enemy are considered just bad management now, not treason nor politics. Thanks much for clearing that up for us dumb readers, comrade zPetrichor ;) (...) >They would have succeeded in quietly selling Vietnam to China (under the guise of 99-year leases), had it not been for the widespread national protests from furious Vietnamese citizens just last year [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRZRSUHsTw) > >Similarly, they would have succeeded in quietly replacing the current modern Vietnamese alphabet, which has been used for close to 400 years without issue, with a Chinese one, had it not been for the widespread national protests from furious Vietnamese citizens just last year [http://archive.is/1xkn2](http://archive.is/1xkn2) 1/ Again you're treating matters as if it was like Hong Kong. SEZs aren't land leases, they're economic zones for crying out loud. Malaysia leases them to the Chinese, Indonesia leases them to the Chinese, Brunei does that too and it's not like what the British did to the Chinese a couple of years back, get your facts straight. 2/ Bùi Hiền is an honorary Associate Professor, and he has nothing to do with the "Corrupted Vietnamese Commies" of yours and your assumptions. His idea of the "Renovated Vietnamese alphabet" has nothing to do with Mandarin, Cantonese,... oh wait, it's 0% Chinese! I too think the alphabet is dumb and funny to mock, but having been learning Japanese for some time (Japanese has 3 alphabets, one of which is Kanji, which are Chinese "letters" pronounced in Japanese) so I clearly understand that this has no correlation to the topic we're debating here. Chinese is figurative, whilst Vietnamese and the shit Bùi Hiền invented is not. It's still latin and latin has nothing to do with Chinese. You are clearly refuting the central point and throwing something completely irrelevant in. >Huh? What are you even talking about? It wasn't decision of these poor Vietnamese sailors conscripted from poor families in Vietnam to have their lives utilized like used condoms by their calculated Commie butcher for commanding officer. They were ordered by their cruel Commie commander to stand in shallow water, unarmed. to purposely be targets for Chinese Navy. > >Yeah ok, so you are saying these poor Vietnamese sailors didn't want to be shot dead, so they volunteered to disarm themselves, stood in shallow water, to be shot dead? Sounds completely logical! Thanks for making sense for us comrade zPetrichor ;) I like how you're continuously referring to these people as used condoms of the big, bad and disgusting "Vietnamese commies", very imaginative. Sadly you're refuting the central point again. I clearly did not mention that the Sailors "voluntarily disarmed themselves to be shot dead", in fact I thought I made my point very clear how they were ordered to cease their fire. **They were armed, they just weren't allowed to fire. "**To purposely be targets for Chinese Navy" is an assumption, but lets say you were the head of the marines, and you have soldiers positioned there and the Chinese, out of nowhere, decides to open fire. **Would you rather order your men to stand still and risk their lives trying to protect the island, or would you prefer to allow them to open fire, directly provoking one of the strongest military forces in Asia, with little to no allies by your side.** Every year we still mourn the deaths of these brave, heroic soldiers and offer as much support we can to their families and loved ones. Stop being so dodgy for a moment would you? Also quit it with the ad hominem and name-calling bullshit. > Who said anything about firing? The point is the inhuman, corrupt Vietnamese Commies in charge dispense the lives of their own citizens like used toilet paper or used condoms to protect only themselves. Firing or not firing is irrelevant to that fact. You have an island and all the sovereignty to it, would you not deploy your troops at it to guard the island? These men were submitted into the military through the Vietnamese conscription laws, which clearly states that " Conscription is in place for every male, age 18 to 25 years old, though females can volunteer to join." though if you go to University or College you don't have to be in the military. No matter how poor or rich you are here, if there isn't a good reason (like Uni or going abroad) for you to not get enlisted then you're conscripted. > Huh? When did Trump do that? Pham Van Dong did though. You are not making sense. Are you on meth? Is that what you spent your privileged wealth on these days, comrade zPetrichor ;) Maybe you should spend that money on helping your own fellow citizens, yes? **Say, when did Trump do that? Exactly!** Pham Van Dong's diplomatic note did not, in any way, shape or form, referr to the Paracel and Spratly island. It was written in 1958, which at the time the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) did not have sovereignty to both of these islands. China intentionally, false interpret this diplomatic note as an excuse. Hence my example of Trump being that the document isn't a representation of reality but reality can bend in the eyes of everyone and anyone. > While our utterly corrupt Commie comrades are busy spending $1 billion USD of taxpayers' money to build racetrack for Formula 1 race [http://archive.is/OBNZe](http://archive.is/OBNZe) and profit from it, they have been inhumanly refusing to help even the most vulnerable members of their society who could only rely on private charities, and none of the corrupt government agencies, for help Again, Singapore does this, Malaysia does this, Thailand does this, China does this, Japan does this, Indonesia does this. There isn't much to rebut on this as literally every country with a firm economy does this.


joeydebreuk

Many for example American foreigners come to Vietnam because with the money they can make working remotely they can live an amazing lifestyle with the same amount of money that in the US might not even cover the rent of a small apartment. Especially health care is so much more affordable. Even if they don't have a remote job, finding an English teaching job is relatively easy and still good money.


Dtran080

Perspective, some people have family to feed, some wants the money, some wants the experience... I'm pretty lucky to live my formative years in Da Nang, and my adolescent life in the US, and now back in Da Nang to live there for goods. Ofc, i would work hard to bring the traffic ethnics of people around me, but I'm truly grateful that the city are really progressive and really care about its people and tourists. People complains about lacks of nightlife in Da Nang, me too, and that sounds like a business opportunities, and I think I would have a lot to offer, and to bring more tastes to the city


sora1607

You’re telling me that it’s surprising for foreigners who are currently living and working in VN to declare that they’d prefer to live in VN? There’s totally nothing bias about that. If you want to answer this question, you need data across all income levels. Maybe you’re only talking to ppl from lower income bracket, so obviously they would dream of living abroad. The very wealthy just get citizenships elsewhere and live in VN


dpslondon27

Because in comparison to other countries, Vietnam is one of the most beautiful, with kind and gentle people, tasty food and the best coffee! Also, what are the statistics for foreigners living in Vietnam? I wonder where it ranks compared to other countries


[deleted]

[удалено]


elisioth4739

Agreed honeymoon period runs out after a few years, soon as my son could walk I seriously reassessed the place and didn’t like it, grew to hate it and the antiquated culture, obsession with status and money and the childish saving face. Got my son out and couldn’t be happier, now working to get the wife over. Great when single but throw kids into it the place is severely lacking and I don’t want my son brainwashed with such nonsense ‘culture’.


Ninhnguyenz

I'm 26 and I am not leaving this country to live in another one. One of the safest country on the surface of the earth right now I think. Plus I live in Dalat city, which is one of the best city in VN in term of living condition. I also have friends that would do anything to leave. I pity them tbh.


Asian_Dragon

> I am not leaving this country to live in another one Not even Singapore? [http://archive.is/ym3Sp](http://archive.is/ym3Sp) ​ >I pity them tbh And maybe many more people pity you, just saying


Ninhnguyenz

Do you even know how expensive Singapore is? My friend say I'm crazy, so there's that. Hey! at least I love my country despite of its flaws.


zeru_shinn

Mostly public drink and cheaper currency


nguyen8995

There are pros and cons. I love America just as much as i love life in Vietnam. It doesn’t have to be so one sided. This is just a matter of perspective, i find it a blessing to have the opportunity to live in another country and experience my parents culture. I can’t wait to come back home to Texas, but i’ll never forget the 2 years i spent here in Vietnam. I can’t appreciate how biased this post is, everyone has different experiences, and it doesn’t always have to come off so negative.


MaapuSeeSore

Vietnam had come a looooooong way from 10 years ago. Old family town where my parents grew up , experienced after the war, now have major roads, new buildings, taller buildings, more cars on the road. The amount of upcoming in the average live has improved quite a bit. Some family there still don't want to leave due to other existing family, younger children, more income staying, risk of success in the us , more luxury lifestyle, etc. Multiple family members and their growing family have maids, don't even need to cook, go out to eat all the time, buy iPhones / genuine luxury goods when they travel there during their stay with us, they're live very well because money goes further. Food is pretty dang cheap ( the most expensive and famous pho place in Saigon cost 4$). Fast food and first world companies are allowing coming into the country. It one of the fastest growing developing countries in the world, like ranked top 10. There are negatives like air pollution, the weather is hot, police corruption and bribes is rampant (esp if you look like a tourist).


jdgoliath

Foreigners dont stay long for a reason. Work opportunities are great but too many problems to be sustainable long term


TaiCTr

Can you elaborate about the “too many problems to be sustainable long term” part? I’m currently a U.S citizen and I go to a university here. I went to Vietnam this summer to visit my relatives and I’ve been seriously thinking about going to Vietnam to live and work in HCM city. I can speak and write Vietnamese well.


jdgoliath

Basically the pay is good for teachers but because they pay the same to unqualified teachers as they do to qualified teachers the level of education has not improved. The country is undergoing huge development that isnt being regulated so most cities and cultural sights have been ruined with the air pollution posing a serious health risk. Racism is a really big problem here and so is fat shaming (im not fat but i have friends here that have been treated disgustingly everyday). Sexism and sexual assault is rampant. The biggest problem would be the state of driving. There are no rules and as a foreigner they have made it near impossible to get a bike license because they dont allow you to convert your license from home country and they dont accept international licenses. They offer the test in one location only, in vietnamese, and often cancel test dates. The figures for road deaths are off the charts and drink driving is common culture. There are good things in vietnam and i do enjoy it but theres a lot that cant be ignored. Crime is low here which is great and the pay is good. Cost of living is low. Beautiful country with lots to do and see. The great thing is you can try it and see if you like it. I havnt been to saigon yet but i hear its really fun, good luck


perldawg

You're gonna have a hard time if you try to do everything 'by the book'. I've talked to more than one foreign resident who took the license test and passed by slipping the official at the desk a bribe. Vietnam works differently than the West. It's not bad or wrong, it's just different. We expect immigrants to adapt and assimilate to US standards, I don't know why we wouldn't expect it to work the same way in the other direction.


jdgoliath

Thats not it at all. they have laws here in vietnam, it is against the law to bribe or accept a bribe. It is against the law to drive the wrong way in traffic. It is a crime to sexually harass a woman. It is a crime to drive without a license. All of these things are accepted practices in Vietnam even though they are illegal. In the west we expect all people to follow the law, not just immigrants or expats. If people want to move to vietnam it is important that they know as much as possible so that they can be prepared.


perldawg

If you think the legal system in the US treats everybody equally, you and I are living in different worlds. You go on and get all bothered about how they're not 'doing it right' in Vietnam. I'm just telling you the world works the way it works, and learning how to navigate a system according to the way it's actually functioning is much easier than trying to always follow the letter of the law when it's often ignored by others.


Asian_Dragon

>I'm just telling you the world works the way it works, and learning how to navigate a system according to the way it's actually functioning is much easier than trying to always follow the letter of the law when it's often ignored by others. That's how and why Vietnam turned out so great, right? :) [http://archive.is/ym3Sp](http://archive.is/ym3Sp)


lemerou

> Racism is a really big problem here and so is fat shaming (im not fat but i have friends here that have been treated disgustingly everyday). Sexism and sexual assault is rampant Is it something that foreigners also experience or do those problems mostly concern Vietnamese people (not talking about racism here of course)?


jdgoliath

The Vietnamese women ive spoken to about this have all said its really bad for them. My gf is part of some girl only groups for expats on social media and its the same across the board for females living in VN. So not just locals. If you are a female that lives in vietnam you will experience it. When getting a taxi be sure to screenshot any driver details or take a picture of the license plate. The sexual assault claims are usually very minor (still terrible i know) and vietnam is quite safe for expats. Im not trying to gatekeep im just giving you information i didnt have before moving here.


lemerou

Thank you. Very interesting. You mention fat shaming. Can you explain how it manifests and if it concerns everyone or just women (for instance) and / or everyone (including expats) or just Vietnamese people.


jdgoliath

It concerns everyone, especially foreigners. Id say the public shaming starts when you are larger than normal western size and gets more humiliating and aggressive the bigger you are. This will involve public groups laughing and pointing. People taking pictures (even shop staff will do it) and posting them online. Taxis will sometimes refuse you. And a lot of insults in vietnamese. Its a very big shame, ive met a wonderful guy from scotland who was almost in tears as he was publicly mocked in a small convenience shop. This is common in china as well. Again i love living in vietnam and i have a great life here but these problems shouldnt be ignored.


emomd

Beside the perspective, consider the USD or AUD...vs VND. It's crazy cheap to travel in VN. I don't think VN people really want to immigrate somewhere else, like USA, Aus, CND. But life opportunities in those countries are easily obtain if you work hard. Of course older generations hate the gov.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Asian_Dragon

>Vietnamese do want to immigrate our but have little chance to do so. The ones that do make it out send money back home to support their families. For some reason, this highly fundamental fact has been conveniently ignored in all the discussions so far. Inquiring minds need to know :) Thank you for stating the truth.


safetywerd

Why do you think that the foreigners don't feel the same way?


dvnjoker

may be because 1$ \~ 23.000 đ, foreigner salary could be easily over 1000$ per month(rend cost = 200$ for a good apartment in a nice city) not being effected much by rule and gov system. While most Vietnamese people work their ass off just to get \~300-500$ a month to feed their family and living in bad condition(pollution, corruption, etc.)


Hardtonicc

Money and respect for western people. Although Vietnam has a dark side to it that most expats don’t get to live.


dragonvip007

Unless you are foreigner or you have money or relations, it's hard for you to get a well-paid job. Also, the wage is not as good as other countries.


NoobNup

To be honest, my Views of the USA were greatly skewed because i live in NYC my whole life and because of that, i thought it's one of the best in world. But as soon as i traveled to other states and places outside of NYC, i can tell you there are many places in USA that are terrible compared to vietnam. Even NEw Jersey, which is right next to NYC, there are so really ghetto and terrible places there. And even the nicer places are too boring, nothing much happens. the countryside in America is different from countryside in vietnam. In america, Houses are so far apart in the countryside, and there ain't shit for miles, really lonely and boring. The thing is in vietnam, even in the countryside, you still got plenty of places to eat, drink, coffees, karaokes. Also if you compare the worst places in AMerica, compared to Worst places in vietnam, they will both have high poverty levels, BUT American places also has high HIGH rates of crimes and violence.


julysniperx

I have been a abroad student in Japan for a year and a half. And recently I had a trip back home last month which was in Hanoi and oh dear how things have changed since the day I left. There are a bunch of construcring buildings near my neighborhood, workers often eat and live right in side the constructing house or rent a house near it. And everywhere I go , I look inside and see a bunch of workers living inside houses. Most of them are from poor neighborhood and countryside which I am okay with that. But oh dear how they litter a lot, everywhere I go, trash, plastic bags, milk boxes. And I am sure not from them alone, there are alot of schools near where I live too. Which means, more garbage along the road. And one more thing, its summer, it takes only 30 minutes after I turn off the AC for my body to be covered in Disgusting Sweat which is really annoying.


BlairHitchPro

Depends on your gender. Being a woman in Vietnam sucks in regard to jobs, relationships, societal status. Total opposite for a man coming to Vietnam.


jdgoliath

completely agree with BlairHitchPro, Women get a bad deal in Vietnam. They are the most hardworking women i have ever seen in my life because they have to do everything. Family pressures push them to become baby machines and doting wifes. Vietnam gets one big holiday a year called Tet and the women ive spoken to hate it because they dont get to rest they would literally rather be at work.


special0ne1st

What? In what corner of shithole in Vietnam does the situation is like that? Because in the city, gender equality is a thing.


cored123

I live and work in HCMC, and a lot of the women and girls I work with/teach would disagree with you.


BufferingPleaseWait

Mystique, and currency arbitrage makes VN very affordable. For many on very low retirement social security income it's much more affordable to retire there, or in similar place. Housing, food, and transportation costs are low, but for the VN the price of everything is high. SGN in intriguing but the heat and humidity is grossly impossible to make adjustment to....giant rats, motorbike noise and exhaust smells, construction noise and smells, and then if go to bar they turn the music so loud you cannot even talk. But can still live cheap if willing to endure the differences.


Iccarys

There’s many reasons but one would be western society is increasingly becoming more fast-paced, complex and stressful. Foreigners, mostly younger/millennial generation who are overwhelmed by this, are hooked by the slow paced, simple and more forgiving way of life in Vietnam.


GoggyMagogger

Plenty of my Vietnamese friends love it here. Not all of them but most. They come from more rural areas that really are gorgeous (they've taken me to visit) and some of them are doing really well because they bought land years ago and the prices are booming right now. When I tell them about life in Canada (ridiculously inflated cost of living, eroding social services, housing crisis, massive homelessness, cold hearted bigoted people, the shitty weather... They can't understand why anyone would want to live there.... I tell them... It's clean. You can drink the tapwater, the roads are good., There's lots of pretty nature... That's about it. Yup... I don't miss it one bit.


InclusivePhitness

My gross salary in Vietnam is around 400,000 USD. I would feel "middle class" with this salary in Hong Kong or Singapore.


alotmorealots

That is pretty incredible for Vietnam! There can't be many salaried people at that rate, even for multinational C-suiters?


InclusivePhitness

I worked in the city states previously and also was aggressive in negotiations.


Haruto-Kaito

400k middle class in hk or sg??? You can buy a HDB every year in singapore for that amount of money. 400k is a lot of money in any country.


InclusivePhitness

How much do you think the average person with wife and two kids (for example) saves in one year from their income if they make 400k usd.


Haruto-Kaito

Saving more than working class/middle class people in Vietnam. No idea how education/life works in Vietnam. In Singapore state schools are great, rent and food can be cheap. So many expats are complaining how Singapore is so expensive but they pay 5-10k a month rent, eat at expensive restaurants, pay expensive fees for international schools. However, people can decide what lifestyle they want.


InclusivePhitness

Well, you could say that about people working 50k a year. They can adjust their lifestyle to save more. Too bad life doesn't work that way. Sorry, but even if I was able, I would never send my kids to public school in Singapore. I guess, in any case, the point of this thread is... why is Vietnam attractive for expats? Well you can save tons and have a pretty high quality of life. Even teachers can more or less live a much more comfortable lifestyle than where they grew up.


blzs

Did you mean 40k?


InclusivePhitness

No, with 40k in Hong Kong or Singapore I would expect you would be closing in on the poverty line.


blzs

400k USD means you take home about 560 million VND per month... You could buy an apartment every half a year with that money. What the hell is your job?


InclusivePhitness

Taxes are over 35% in Vietnam, so that's definitely not my take-home. I included bonus and everything in that figure. I'm C-level for a foreign financial services company.


blzs

I included the tax and insurances in my calculations. You must be in the top 1% with that money.


InclusivePhitness

I hope so. I guess my point is I have friends on similar-ish packages in places like HK/SG. After like cost of childcare (nannies) plus education and the exorbitant cost of housing and living, they are probably not saving as much as people would think. You add in things like travel (which I don't do much of anymore)... but most people will take easily 3 massive trips a year (back home, visit friends around Asia, get away with family) and they can easily drop 20-30 grand a year on travel. Rent or Mortgage could be like between 4 - 7k USD a month. So yeah... even if you were to make half of that in Vietnam you could potentially be much better off savings wise.


calamityecho

Vietnam has some of the nicest people in the world, and there’s very little violence if any down there. My step aunt who came here wants to go back so bad because of how corrupt America is. I wouldn’t blame her. I’d go back too.


heyboy789

Only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches. Foreigners love to live in Viet Nam because of 1 thing: Cheap living cost. Compare to the amount of money you can make in a western country, living cost in Viet Nam is very cheap. Salary of a month in western country equal to 5-6 months for a "normal job" in Viet Nam. That's why foreigners see it's easy to live in Viet Nam but Vietnamese doesn't. Not to mention Vietnamese face threat like dirty food, traffic jam, pollution,... every day.


quantanhoi

Because of the education system I think. I must say the system in Vietnam is way too worse than the others industry country such as Germany or America and stuffs. That why ppl study abroad instead of studying in Vietnam. Even after graduating from University you have a pretty low chance to find a job that suit you, many students must even take a job that isn't related to what they studied... I don't say that unemployment in other countries is low, but the oppotunity is still higher than Vietnam


proudantivaxxer

Sorry I don't take advice from talking trees.


truongtuenhi2003ben

i am vietnamese. and i always proud of my country UwU. :v t vẫn thích nói tiếng việt hơn, như vầy rặng ra từng chữ tiếng anh khó vl


Cuongsmjle

:))) Nói tiếng brother làm j cho tired !! nói Vietnamese cho nó easy


hanoijohn1995

The only problems I see it's the grave pollution and lack of opportunities for ambitious people. But if you wanna chill on the side streets with your iced coffee and thuoc lao all day Vietnam is for you.


OGMoneyClips

Communism... capitalism... none of these matter when you are subsisting on rice cultivation, fishing and scrawny livestock... less than $2 a day mean the same thing in either society.


FujiToday

Because every country has its own problems. By asking such question, I think you're assuming that living in Western World is problem-free. But in reality it's not. You need to open your eyes.


mrheosuper

People this, people that. :P Not all VNmese people think this is a very bad place to live, imo, VN is an average country, they have low-cost living, stable politic, etc. Ofc no country is perfect. Even switzeland( the best country imo).


[deleted]

To be blunt, it’s a factor of economics. The US dollar is the strongest it’s ever been and that means foreigners’ money goes even further in Vietnam. Someone who has a pension or remote income in USD that’s considered poor/middle class in the US can live like a prince in Vietnam. Now, this is the case for money other nations in the world, however Vietnam has friendly people, fantastic nature, beaches, weather and food compared to let’s say Ethiopia or Moldova. THIS is your answer. A combination of extremely low cost of living for people generating “western level income” and fantastic benefits compared to other countries with similar economies around the world.


soluuloi

Lol, a lot of benefits for foreign companies like reduced tax and lenient standards to attract foreign investment. Much better wages and living conditions. Plus, Vietnamese are xenophobe as fuck so foreigners in Vietnam are treated much better than the locals. If you check the "western streets" such as Bui Vien or Le Thanh Ton at night, there are literally hundred of chicks seeking foreign dick out there in the 1st District in Saigon. I am not kidding, chicks and cougars gonna jump at your foreigner face in bars as long as you look half good.


Tuan-Phung

Ignore him, he is a Vietnamese Wumao.