T O P

pick your battles

pick your battles

Aaaaaaandyy

I’d understand that initially, not after 190M Americans have been fully vaccinated.


SassyVikingNA

This. There WAS understandable hesitation. That hesitation is no longer reasonable.


Kichae

It's always going to be reasonable when you're a member of a population that has been mistreated by the systems offering the vaccine. POC have suffered every indignity from the medical establishment in North America, from refusing to treat them, to *pretending* to treat them, to treating them but having done no actual research or testing of their products on POC before shipping them off to market, resulting in unexpected and unadvertised complications.


SassyVikingNA

There is a limit. When hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated with almost no complications or side effects then you shut up and you take the damn vaccine. But if all that still isn't enough for you and you can only possibly be swayed by emotion, not facts, then think about it this way. If there were anything wrong with the vaccine, why would rich white people be hoarding it for themselves. The poor and especially colored communities were the last to reliably have access to it. I am sympathetic to their situation and what has happened in the past. But the ONLY way we beat this virus is if we all work together.


GringoPapi

Not even hundreds of millions, it's literally BILLIONS at this point.


SassyVikingNA

I was speaking for the US. But yes, globally it is billions, you are right.


Bigzzzsmokes

If it was only black people who weren't getting vaccinated, I would agree with you, but the fact that most unvaccinated people are white, gives black people some cover, meaning white people don't trust the government/ healthcare system either, but maybe for different reasons(or maybe for the same reasons)


EmergencyDirection79

You are 100% correct.


dh2215

Especially when the affluent and powerful were the first in line to get the vaccine. I understand not wanting to be guinea pigs and being distrustful of the government. That all makes sense to me. You’d have to make a lot of leaps to determine that white people are getting the good vaccine and black people are getting placebo or a different vaccine entirely


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SaltMineSpelunker

And 400,000 dead. They are going for the record.


Melodic_Mulberry

They’re still 300,000 behind us.


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SaltMineSpelunker

Neither is your comment about vaccinated number in India. If you can tangent then anyone can. Weird how you can’t see your hypocrisy. Edit: LOL he mad about being called out.


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Dazzling-Nature-6380

What year was that


ratpies

1932-1972


Riots_and_Rutabagas

Tuskegee Experiment


battles

That isn't accurate. No one was infected with syphilis. However treatment was withheld from people who had already contracted syphilis. There is MASSIVE difference, even though withholding treatment is clearly morally wrong. https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm


ratpies

Thank you for the correction.


Aaaaaaandyy

Oh I totally get (and sympathize) why they have concerns - that shit was fucked up, but in a pandemic there’s no leeway for anyone here. We all have to just take a leap of faith and do what we can to make this manageable.


veggiebuilder

50 years ago, black people were given placebo vaccines instead of real ones for syphilis (while being told it was the same). So number of people been vaccinated doesn't really change the historical impacts and reasons for not trusting it. The number of black people been vaccinated and positive outcomes associated should be what helps alleviate those fears but the number of generic people vaccinated should have 0 impact.


edemamandllama

The Tuskegee trials were fucked. It not surprising that black people might be hesitant. The orchestrators of the trials new that penicillin cure syphilis, and didn’t give it to them. I feel like a deal with one of the many unintended consequences of these trials. I have Multiple Myeloma and around 60% of MM patients are black in the USA, only 3% of drug trail patients are black. I get it, how could you ever trust a drug/medical trials? All of that being said the vaccine is out of the trial stage and if they give it to rich famous people and world leaders, it’s probably okay.


froglover215

Rich people were chartering planes to Alaska when the vaccine was first available, because it was supposedly easier to get there. Rich people in Florida were gaming the system to put vaccine clinics in their rich zip codes instead of spreading them out equally. At least one doctor smuggled out vaccine vials to vaccinate his friends and loved ones before they qualified. It's been obvious from the beginning that the rich and connected have trusted the vaccine.


Yukon_C0rnelius

I don’t think there’s an excuse at this point.


Cheap_Nectarine1100

As a black boomer, I agree!


Ak15567

So we just going to keep it going the way it is or something?


mikelikes112

Yup, NOTHING is more important than peoples feels


LynnMichaels96

Yea poc have been mistreated by medical professionals for so long they don't trust them, my own sister had to find her own doctor of color to feel safer.


Bulky_Cry6498

Has there been much in the way of black community leaders doing outreach? New Zealand’s having that issue with Maori people not trusting the system, and they have noticeably better vaccination rates in areas that have Maori-led vaccination initiatives.


Dandibear

Yes. White people should bear in mind that we may not be seeing much of them because we are not the target audience. That doesn't mean they're not out there.


EmergencyDirection79

100%


Peter_the_Teddy

What I absolutely hate is this "You hear so much, you don't now whom to believe anymore." How about you look who says what? Because If you listen to doctors and scientists, the opinions you get are pretty clear. But if you listen to every dumbfuck with internet, you'll hear every dumb thing in the universe. Ignore it. they have no idea. You wouldn't take plubmer advice from a forrest ranger, right? You'd ask a plumber. So don't get medicine advise from people that aren't in medicine. And no, chiropractors (There's a reason they don't treat cancer and stuff like that), "cristal-healers" and those shitheads are not "in medicine". They are "in denial" of common sense.


GrumpyOldGuy66

So... It's okay to call anyone an idiot for not taking the vaccine... Unless they're of African American descent. Noted.


stalphonzo

It should be approached differently. Right wing extremists and black Americans have very different motivations for refusing the vaccine.


Ithinkibrokethis

Yep, the past was bad. Shitty things happen that often need justice or recompense. However, the future won't be any better if nobody trusts anyone ever.


stalphonzo

And how do you plan to earn the trust of Black Americans? "Get over it" is all anyone has offered up to now and it isn't working.


EmergencyDirection79

Yup 🎯


klware

No I don’t think they do. People don’t trust the government and they don’t trust pharmaceutical companies.


stalphonzo

The right wing \*looooves\* the government. They worship Trump and the GOP. They can't get enough. But they are also unreasonable, violent idiots whose every argument against masks and vaccines is a literal non sequitur. Black people are an oppressed population who are reminded of the fact daily.


klware

You’re wrong. They voted for trump because our government is useless. Poor white people aren’t oppressed now?


stalphonzo

What in heaven's name are you talking about? They voted for Trump because Trump hates the same people they do. No, white people are not "oppressed." Some are poor and deserve a better life, but they are not oppressed.


EmergencyDirection79

Again👏🎯


SaltMineSpelunker

Correct. Not the place of a white person to lecture them about not trusting the healthcare system. You tried to be sarcastic and were accidentally right.


EmergencyDirection79

Yes bingo


GrumpyOldGuy66

Excellent. Is there a list of things that those who are not African American should avoid broaching with those who are? Is there also an inverse list? Sure would be handy to have a reference so that neither might say something insensitive...


SaltMineSpelunker

Nope. No lists to bad faith questions. Sorry. You are going to have to rely on history and empathy to guide you through.


GrumpyOldGuy66

Thanks for the minefield friend!


klware

But it’s somehow fine to lecture poor white Americans about their mistrust of a for profit healthcare system that is almost entirely out of reach for them?


SaltMineSpelunker

Yup. Now you are getting it.


I_cook-sometimes

So basically anyone who doubts Pfizer or Merck is an anti vaxxer sack of human garbage unless they're black? What a load of shit lol


Canttakethewhyfromme

I don't completely trust the government either...but I pick and choose and look at possible, likely, motivations. I don't just pick one position and apply it to everything.


SassyVikingNA

They thing is you don't have to truct the government. The government has literally nothing to do with the vaccine other than paying for it to make it free at injection. The ones you have to truct are doctors, especially the most renowned epidemiologists our country has to offer, who unanimously agree it is safe and effective, or the data of the hundreds of millions of doses adminiatered which also clearly prove it is both safe and effective.


cityfireguy

Cool, except you didn't so much "shut the fuck up" as you ran to Twitter to tell the whole world how understanding you are. You could have just actually shut the fuck up.


Vinmcdz

They shut the fuck up at that time. That doesn't preclude them from sharing with others are another point.


jbag72

If you can get vaccinated and choose not to ,you shouldn’t be allowed in a hospital


DukeCab00m

“Understandably” lol, ok.


FrostByte09_

Explain?


DukeCab00m

There’s nothing understandable about that. That’s why I said lol. It’s stupid. At first I thought this person was saying they shut up because this girl was just an idiot, but then I realized he is justifying rationale. It’s dumb. If you can’t turn on the tv, radio, internet and resize that covid affects everyone, and everyone should get the vaccine, you’re just foolish.


baraznji

True, sometimes it’s just not worth the trouble


Careless_Educator_21

“My body, my choice”……is my answer to any question now. Person: you hungry? Me: my body, my choice……


Bobby_Rotkop

I recently learned a close friend of mine not only votes extreme right he's also anti-vax. It's been mulling in my head for a week I have a very hard time dealing with it. Basically he now supports things that I hate to the fucking core and I don't know how to handle it. I need to talk with him, but I fear tempers will flare. I'm much smarter than him and will most likely destroy him with facts, but I fear that also risks our friendship. We've been friends for decades, it fucking sucks.


UncleEyeRoh

i dont get it