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ILAudiPorscheguy

We have the Subaru Crosstrek, which is a lifted Impreza hatchback. Americans just prefer big cars. Gas is cheap and space is plentiful.


Englez97

Us europeans also get the crosstrack but it's kind of expensive here, 33,85k US dollars for basic basic 1.6 petrol with 114 ponies and a cvt. For just a couple thousands more (couple thousands less if you're happy with 2 wheel drive) you can get the rav 4 that is bigger and more powerfull plus you can get manual i believe. And mazda cx 5 is also cheaper and much much better to drive on road, feels kinda sporty considering it's an suv/cuv.


miragen125

Apparently


ILAudiPorscheguy

right, try driving a Suburban down European streets. And fueling it too. Good luck.


miragen125

Yeah there's a reason why compact city cars are popular here. I mean I have an A4 and it's already quite annoying to park. And it's pretty small compare to the sedan they have in the US...


ILAudiPorscheguy

I have an A4 too. It’s easy as hell to park my A4 with all the cameras and parking sensors.


miragen125

It's easy to park but it hard to find a parking spot long enough. Also parking spots in underground carpark and such are narrow af, I am always scared to get a dent on my doors Do you live in Europe?


ILAudiPorscheguy

No I live across the pond in America.


Darkfire757

You mean the same streets they drive semi-trucks and coach busses down? *Sacre bleu!*


ILAudiPorscheguy

Well buses still have to transport people and semis need to deliver stuff.


Englez97

I mean it's not impossible to do it, most streets you'll be alright. We don't drive cars that big usually but we have vans and trucks that pass through so it's not like every street in europe is built for a compact hatchbacks exclusively.


ILAudiPorscheguy

fair, but the fueling part will be a real chore. I know Suburbans run on regular fuel, but they're not the most efficient and the fuel tank is 28 gallons.


Englez97

I just think that not a lot of europeans are interested in those giant american suvs, we have a lot of g wagons, quite a bit of urus and rsq8, landcruisers, defenders... but only a few hummers and escalades. *(This is just from what I've seen, it isn't a proper source to learn about car market in europe.)*


miragen125

We'd like to have them but here they would sell them for twice the price in the US.


Boostedprius

Good news!


ILAudiPorscheguy

what?


notjoms

They're done an off-road version of the Dacia Sandero!


ILAudiPorscheguy

oh wow! Anyways


iWant3Pedals

What the hell are you on about?


chackn

Top gear


iWant3Pedals

I know, I was quoting the next line. Jeremy says "Good news, there's an offroad version of the Dacia Sandero! Don't pay attention to the Renault badge. That's a Dacia, that baby!" James responds with "What the hell are you on about?"


chackn

Ohh I don't remember that part. Remember which episode what was in?


iWant3Pedals

Don't know the exact episode or series, but [this](https://youtu.be/A7-7Ps8EWnk?t=72) is the clip.


chackn

Thanks👍


DodgerBlueRobert1

A small percentage of Americans know what it is...mainly some car enthusiasts who pay attention to vehicles not sold in America. But I'd bet most Americans have never heard of it. Do we care for small 4WD vehicles? Yes. The compact SUV/CUV segment is basically the smallest segment of vehicle that is bought with 4WD/AWD in mind. But honestly, the Duster isn't that much smaller than a RAV4. The Jeep Wrangler is very popular here. All Wranglers are 4WD. But yeah, it seems as if the majority of 4WD vehicles are full size pickups in America.


miragen125

Thanks for your answer. >But honestly, the Duster isn't that much smaller than a RAV4 Yes that's kinda true the new generation is getting bigger >The Jeep Wrangler is very popular here. All Wranglers are 4WD. Yeah it's what I was thinking, but it looks that people buy a the Jeep Wrangler , want a Jeep and nothing else. They buy a Jeep rather than a small 4wd


DodgerBlueRobert1

The Jeep Wrangler is more than just simply a "4WD vehicle" here. A lot of people buy it for the image it portrays, without ever using its true capability. Nothing wrong with that, but just pointing it out. But also, up until very recently, the Wrangler has basically had no competition in its segment. Now the new Ford Bronco exists and is meant to go head on with the Wrangler. The Wrangler has become very popular in the last 5-6 years, sales wise. So Ford wanted a piece of that action. But generally speaking, Americans tend to prefer bigger vehicles, 4WD or not, than the rest of world because we have the space for them. There's tons of small AWD SUV's/crossovers here, but they don't have real 4WD.


miragen125

The new Ford Bronco look sweeeeeeet ! Another good looking car that we won't have in Europe. Man the European car market is boring AF... We only have small city cars and they are not even cheap...


DodgerBlueRobert1

Yes it is. I love the way it looks, specifically with the [Sasquatch package.](https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2020/07/2021-Ford-Bronco-front-three-quarter-10.jpg) The grass is always greener on the other side. Trust me, you guys have plenty of cars in Europe that are cool/interesting/different that we don't get here in America.


miragen125

I am really interested in knowing what we have that can be possibly interesting to you guys ! Because I am sick of small compact fwd city cars


DodgerBlueRobert1

Well, in general, just brands that we don't get here. Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, etc. Not saying they're great or amazing cars per se, but there are some interesting designs from those brands that are just so different than what is sold here. And then specific cars from brands that *do* sell here, but don't offer us a specific model....such as the Honda e or the Toyota GR Yaris.


miragen125

>Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, etc. Not saying they're great or amazing cars per se, but there are some interesting designs from those brands that are just so different than what is sold here. Peugeot and Citroen are making some effort with their design and they start to offer interesting looking cars. But to be honest all of them are SUV like the 3008, 5007 , DS7. The only sedan that is not too bad is the new 508. But if I had to pick between a 508 and a mustang V6 for basically the price. I would definitely go for the Mustang... After that... Nothing really interesting IMO. >such as the Toyota GR Yaris. One of the only fun car that has been released in Europe for quite a while


DodgerBlueRobert1

Ford hasn't made a V6 Mustang since 2017. Since then it's either a turbo 4 or a V8.


miragen125

Damn... a turbo 4 on a Mustang ?? Where this world is going ? Ford is getting more and more European...


Coffee-Not-Bombs

Series 70 Toyotas...


madwolfa

RS4, GR Yaris...


miragen125

You don't get the RS4 ? You guys have the A4 Quattro isn't it ? Yaris GR ok but there isn't much more that you could possibly envy us. It's almost impossible to get an affordable RWD here, you basically only have BMW...


madwolfa

We get the A4/S4, but not the RS4. Also no M140i 4dr hatchback, only M240i 2dr coupe.


miragen125

Oh well... German cars are a bit boring and over priced TBH (and I have an A4). Audi, Volkswagen, Skoda, Seat, Porsche it's the same company and you find the same spare parts in all these brands. At least you get rwd with BMW.


Goons_Forever

A big reason people want them is the removable top and doors. Until the new bronco came out, they had a monopoly on a cool “beach” vehicle or lake trip or river floating where you can go swim and then hop straight in an open air car that hasn’t been baking the inside all day. The removable doors and top are huge selling points even beyond the image.


RunninOnMT

The Bronco will be the main Jeep competitor once ford gets production in order. I don’t think there is really anything much smaller than those cars that comes with real 4wd (with an external transfer case and all that.) we have small AWD cars but they’d suck off-road.


miragen125

>we have small AWD cars but they’d suck off-road. Yeah it hard to find something that can actually go off road with massive mods


RunninOnMT

Yeah, we sort of have heard of the duster, but we definitely know about the jimny (but we don’t get them.) The off-roading community really wants it though from what I can tell. I personally am not a big off-road guy, but I have friends that are into the scene (and I like the scene a little bit! I have a radio control rock crawler..) I think people that want to off-road something more compact are stuck with buying older equipment. We got the Suzuki samurai in the 80s and 90s and old Toyotas like the 4Runner and the Tacoma can be pretty compact if you go back to the 80s. And there’s enough empty desert in the southwest corner of the country that we have a fair number of survivors without too much rust.


miragen125

It's a shame that you need to buy 4wd from the 80/90's to have fun


Coffee-Not-Bombs

> They buy a Jeep rather than a small 4wd So here's the thing - there is actually nothing smaller than the 2D Wrangler with part-time 4WD available in the US market that's 50-state road legal (I'm discounting places where SxS's can be plated and driven on the road). Jimnys are awesome. Kei trucks are awesome. Steyr Halflingers are awesome. But we're not likely to see a revival of them being sold new - in fact, many US states (looking at you, Maine) are enacting tougher laws to get vehicles like kei trucks off the roads entirely, even ones that fall under 25-year import laws and have been legal for a while.


trolllord45

Super side topic, but not all Wranglers are 4wd. Jeep sold 2WD Wranglers from 2007 to 2010 in four door guise only. https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/jeep-once-sold-two-wheel-drive-wrangler-and-it-was-weird-281474979998290 Edit. Commented again with non-AMP link


DodgerBlueRobert1

Huh, interesting. TIL


Drzhivago138

Weren't the old Dispatcher Jeeps (DJs rather than CJs) also 2WD-only?


boachl

You can get 2.5 Duster for one Wrangler though, the JL ist stupid expensive


DodgerBlueRobert1

First of all, not true. I just built a Duster on the UK website. The cheapest trim level offered truly is poverty spec. There's not even a backup camera, something that is standard in America. So I went with the middle trim level, which really isn't much more expensive anyway. Ok, so this middle trim level only offers 4x4 on the most expensive engine offered, a small Diesel engine. After all is said and done, it comes out to 19,645 in British pounds. That's $26,410. The cheapest Wrangler you can buy is $37,460. So $10,000 more expensive than the Duster. That's not 2.5 times more expensive. And honestly, you're getting more "car" with the Wrangler. You get a standard 3.6 liter V6 that is wayyyyy more powerful than any engine offered in the Duster. Not to mention it's quicker 0-60 than the Duster as well. And of course the Wrangler is going to be much more capable off-road than the Duster, which is a FWD-based crossover. So sure, the JL is more expensive, but you're getting more car. You have look at things equally/look at the whole picture when comparing two different vehicles.


boachl

Wrangler Unlimited with the only Real option for an engine (the 2 Liter petrol) is 65000€ though... Jeep only offers the 2door as entry level Sport trim, 4door is only Sahara or Rubicon


DodgerBlueRobert1

I'm going by what's available to me in the Wrangler's home market, America. I'm not going by how expensive it is when it's exported to a country that uses the Euro. Sorry your prices/taxes are through the roof for the Wrangler. We have the 3.6 V6 as the base engine, with a turbo 4, a turbo diesel, and a plug-in hybrid as available engine options. Edit: I just checked Jeep's UK website and saw the price of the Wrangler. I understand now.


Bunjmeister83

I know what you're trying to say, but you're looking at it all wrong. You are just converting the currency and calling it done. But here in the UK, where you can actually buy both cars, in the same market, the difference is huge. The wrangler starts at £49,450, and only comes with a 2.0 engine here. So, yup, in the UK a wrangler is two and a half dusters. It's not fair to compare the UK price of one car as a theoretical conversion, against an actual American price. You yanks get a hell of a lot of car for not much money compared to us Brits. At least on your domestic vehicles anyway.


DodgerBlueRobert1

Ok, I see that now. I went onto Jeep's UK website and saw the price. I guess you can simply chalk that up to export costs. The 2 liter turbo 4 is actually an upgrade for us over the base 3.6 V6. Yeah, domestic vehicles for us are relatively inexpensive, compared to them being sold overseas.


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Kawaii_Neko_Girl

Lots of people want small offroaders but the market isn't really there.


miragen125

Yeah it feels that it has being replaced by compact SUVs


RunninOnMT

Yeah, we like small SUVs but I think we don’t care how good they are at off-roading 99 percent of the time. We have a ton of small “crossover” vehicles, many of which are fwd.


miragen125

The thing that I hate about crossover/SUV is that they look like 4wd but they are just fwd like any other cars. They are faking it


Drzhivago138

Depends on where you are; most CUVs in northern states will have AWD even if the customer doesn't really need it. And IMO, it's better that people have more fuel-efficient FWD/AWD unibody CUVs that look like rugged SUVs if they never took the old SUVs off-road anyway (like in the '90s).


ILAudiPorscheguy

Even premium brands that offer RWD CUVs, 95% of them on the lot are AWD.


Drzhivago138

It's much like how all pickups north of the Manson-Nixon line have 4WD--we don't necessarily *need* need it, even in snowy states, but to not have it would kill your resale value. I know I would never buy a new 2WD-only pickup


Darkfire757

2WD trucks get stuck on wet grass


ILAudiPorscheguy

I wouldn’t be surprised if most major automakers eliminate FWD from their crossovers. Audi and Subaru are almost exclusively AWD.


Drzhivago138

Once everything goes electric or hybrid, with the rear wheels being powered by motors, I could see that happening. But right now, FWD-only CUVs are necessary to advertise a low base price. Some subcompact CUVs don't even offer AWD.


Drzhivago138

>Car manufacturers no longer offer small 4wd. The Toyota Rav4 increased in size. So the choice goes between the Duster and the Suzuki Jimny/Samurais. What? Just based on what I'm seeing for the Duster's dimensions, it seems to be the same as every other compact crossover sold here, RAV4 included.


miragen125

The first gen was a bit smaller than the current one. But for sure it was never the size of a Jimny or old gen Rav4


Drzhivago138

That's true; I would put the first- and second-gen RAV4s down as subcompacts rather than compacts. But regardless of size, the RAV4 has always been a FWD/AWD crossover, not an off-roader.


miragen125

Women loooved the first and second gen Rav4


DOugdimmadab1337

No. Honestly, if you want a tiny offroader in the US, you either buy a Suzuki Samurai or an old 80s or earlier Jeep.


That-shouldnt-smell

I have a 2003 Fiat 4x4 in Malaysia that I am waiting to get to 25 years old (seven more years) so I can legally import it here to the states. There's defiantly a market for small 4x4 in the states. But it would at best be a niche market.


miragen125

May be for people living in the mountains or something where there are less space


That-shouldnt-smell

Wouldn't there be less spaying a city? Right now it would be perfect for exploring the thousands of gravel road in Arizona.


dissss0

> Car manufacturers no longer offer small 4wd Sure they do. Thats what the Yaris Cross/Kona/Stonic/HRV/etc are


miragen125

I see where you come from and I agree but I guess I am thinking more about "off roader" rather than SUV. I understand that the duster is getting closer to a SUV than a Jimny/samourais now


Drzhivago138

But hasn't the Duster always been a FWD/AWD compact CUV?


miragen125

It's complicated... There is a FWD version and a 4WD one. At the origin people were using the duster as a cheap 4WD , so people that wanted to go off road , live in snowy regions and work in the fields. But now the FWD version is very popular and it's more its SUV side that they are improving with the new generations


dissss0

It's exactly the same AWD system you'd find in any Nissan Crossover (or Renault for that matter) It isn't a proper offroader at all and I imagine people will be using it that way because it's cheap and disposable rather than being particularly suited for it.


miragen125

>It isn't a proper offroader at all and I imagine people will be using it that way because it's cheap and disposable rather than being particularly suited for it. True


Drzhivago138

> It's complicated... There is a FWD version and a 4WD one. But unless I'm mistaken, that "4WD" version you're talking about is just a front-biased AWD system like any other CUV.


miragen125

I guess so ... There is a selector that let you choose between fwd , automatic (the car decide when to use the AWD) and forced 4wd for crossing and such


Drzhivago138

> and forced 4wd for crossing and such But that "4WD" is the same AWD as any other CUV.


miragen125

I don't know the difference to be honest


dissss0

Same platform as a Nissan Kicks so it's very much a CUV, just a cheap, poorly equipped one


zleepytimetea

Rented a Duster in Iceland while on vacation. That little thing is a beast of a fuel efficient machine!


Old_Goat_Ninja

Not anymore. We used to have a lot of small 4x4’s, like the Geo Tracker, Suzuki Samurai, etc then they just disappeared. I was a fan of the small 4x4’s myself.


Drzhivago138

The first-gen Kia Sportage kind of fell into that category too, but it was a bit bigger than a Tracker (while costing about the same).


MagneticGray

The market for small *anything* is dwindling in the US. The majority or my friends and family share the same sentiment: small vehicles just aren’t safe here anymore, considering that at any given time on the road you’re most likely to be surrounded by 5k-8k lb. trucks and SUVs. Hell, I’m a lifelong performance car enthusiast and I’m even insisting that my girlfriend moves to a larger crossover or SUV from her 2017 Jetta. We live in a rural area so we share the road with an even higher percentage of giant trucks, and our roads are mostly curvy 2-lanes (with a double yellow line in the middle) with 45-55mph speed limits.


miragen125

That's kinda weird... Americans in a few years : https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Caterpillar/CM20200924-81978-a3b06?$cc-g$&fmt=pjpeg


MagneticGray

We're not far from it. The Ford F250 is one of the most common vehicles on the road around here. They're used for personal, work/fleet, and farm vehicles so they make up probably a third of the traffic in my area. A 2019 F250 weighs up to 7600lbs, and that's without accounting for whatever load they may be carrying or towing. My last daily driver was a Ford Focus ST and one of my reasons for getting rid of it was the daily anxiety that I felt when stopped behind an F250 at a stop light and looking at my rearview mirror to see another F250 racing up behind me. Considering how many drivers in the US are constantly being distracted by their 8-12" infotainment screens, or using their phone to argue online about which Billionaire criminal is better suited to run the country, I felt like I was putting myself in near-death situations anytime I made a quick trip to the market for some $5 milk and $7 eggs.


miragen125

>using their phone to argue online about which Billionaire criminal is better suited to run the country Ah ah ! Man I like your sense of humour.


Salt_lick_fetish

Go ask r/4x4 lol. Well make you the top comment of all time for posting this! Most off-road enthusiasts really hate that there’s no small or short wheelbase 4x4 in America. Old Suzuki’s fetch a premium over here because it’s the only game in town.


A_1337_Canadian

Market for small 4WD in NA? You mean all the AWD crossovers that exist? That's your sales right there. Don't give me this "yeah but they're not an offroader" BS. Crossovers sell. And in Canada and northern US, AWD CUV is the cash cow.


miragen125

I know what you mean ..but yeah I am thinking more about what a Jimny/Samourais is rather than SUV/CUV..


Lil_pedall

I never heard of a renault duster..the American version is a Plymouth duster a small classic muscle car.


miragen125

The Renault/Dacia Duster has 1.5L engine... So basically it's a muscle car /s


[deleted]

My aunt in Colombia has one.


Hudson2441

Small 4WD in America is Subaru and the rest are mostly larger cars but it’s kind of a Niche thing. I lived in Romania for a year or so I would import a Dacia. Just to be different.


Coffee-Not-Bombs

1. Probably wouldn't be sold under that name here, the Duster was a Plymouth. 2. I really wish the Jimny would get here, but apparently not...


Papapene-bigpene

I’d love to drive a Suzuki samurai or a Jinny


reesesbigcup

We have the Ford Ecosport in the USA. It gets knocked on this sub anytime its mentioned. Maybe not a great choice, in this tight market where more popular cars are difficult to find, there are many Ecosports available brand new even last years models.


SouthernGears

Personally I love a small 4x4.. I may be of the minority of Americans, but I wish there were still smaller trucks in modern vehicle lineups. Here, even the new "small" pickups are not small anymore. I have a Toyota Hilux that I refuse to let die, I'll have it till I'm dead myself. There is a small following here in the states for the Suzuki samarai and the like, but they are far from mainstream.


YourOwnBiggestFan

On American roads and budgets a medium-sized 4WD "becomes" a small one.


porterbrown

I have a Wrangler. Would love to cross shop a Jimny. Just can't buy them here. I went from a YJ to a JK and the JK is huge. I want something YJ sized. Like a Jimny.


miragen125

A duster with an aftermarket off road body kit look pretty sweet to me : https://www.auto-moto.com/insolite/dacia-duster-spectaculaire-kit-carrosserie-offroad-prior-design-259403.html#dacia-duster-offroad-par-prior-design-259409


Mysterious-Row-133

I see the duster on Coronado all the time.


ultrafunkmiester

You can still buy a brand new Lada Niva here in the UK.


Outaw

Nobody cares about small 4wd, Dacia/Renault is a shitbox


miragen125

That's the point . You ain't scared of doing stupid shit with it.


g1rth_brooks

I would love one but they wouldn’t sell here which is why we don’t get them like we did in decades prior. It’s unfortunate because it’s just me in my car 90% of the time but I don’t want a 2 door car but I’d love something like a Jimny. Wrangler tax is not worth it now and even 2 door wranglers are becoming a rare sight Cars are just getting bigger unfortunately


miragen125

I think you can buy them in Mexico but I don't know if you can bring them to the US after that


Carburetors_are_evil

The cheapest Duster has like 60 hp and doesn't even come with a radio. I'm surprised the gears are synchronized in that shitheap. lmao


miragen125

The most powerfull has 150 HRSPRS which is not too bad. The point of this car is to be dirt cheap so you aren't scared of playing with it


TorsionalRigidity99

Small ? In America ? No one cares


miragen125

It's funny how much everyone hate smart car in the US


TorsionalRigidity99

They all need a giant pickup truck or a 8 seat Body on Frame SUV to commute alone just because they can.


EpicTaco9901

Oddly saw a Duster here in Arizona, super weird


miragen125

They are sold in Mexico, that's probably why..


dpb699

I know what they are and would like to see them in the US.


shaneucf

US has samurai before. This tells you how much US cares about small 4wd


paranormalresponsega

Big ass? Jeep? Wranglers? Clearly you've never ridden in one, especially a two door. Now I will admit that there are an awful lot of 4 door ones out there, which is what I consider to be nothing more than a 60k minivan mall crawler. Yes, people are stupid. My 2 door older Wrangler feels like riding in a enclosed cargo case. But, my two door will go a lot of places that the 4 cannot get into or over. Wranglers look a lot bigger because they are not aerodynamic.


pucks20

I would prefer most any of the small European cars to the crossovers we have available in the states. Especially now that there are a bunch of small EVs that would be decent to drive. Instead most of the cars here are sold for people to compensate for their self respect.


miragen125

Lool, EVs are getting popular and cheaper here we have quite some choice. Gas is expensive AF so it helps people to make the transition. We also see more and more Tesla every days