My parents have never met my son. Why?
By - AlbinoSquirrel84
Have you straight up asked them if they have plans to visit? "Hey, I was really disappointed that the pandemic stopped you visiting us last year, I'd love to see you and have you spend time with your grandson. Do you think you could come over soon?" And then take it from there.
I guess I don't ask because I feel the answer will be them just hemming and hawing. I feel like I shouldn't have to ask for them to meet their grandson.
I did tell them I was very upset that they didn't come once they were vaccinated (but when quarantining was still happening). They told me it was because they didn't know where they'd quarantine.
So instead of using your words and communicating with literally the only two people in the world who know, you rather have us guess at their reasons until we find one that feels acceptable to you? Come on, dude. Set an example for your kid.
I suppose I was looking for sympathy, as well as advice.
I think it's legitimate to not put your emotional state in danger. I tried to share how I felt with my parents until my mid twenties, and each time it broke me a little more and got even harder to reach out.
I reached out to them about visiting two months ago. Told them we were struggling. First time I'd tried to ask for support in a decade. It crushed me that the reason for not meeting their grandson was they didn't want to sit in a hotel.
I'm not wrecking myself to ask them again.
> It crushed me that the reason for not meeting their grandson was they didn't want to sit in a hotel.
I find this 100% understandable from their side. Quarantine in hotel massively sux and them not wanting to subject themselves to it should be met with understanding nod rather then with "how dare you".
I think that large part of issue here is you. It is not personal insult that they don't want to travel under those conditions. You taking it as such however will eventually break your relationships with people.
You might be looking at the wrong reasons why your parents are not visiting.
The fact that travel is possible now and that they are vaccinated does not mean that the danger from COVID are null. They are older so they could have some concerns.
Every step of their travel involves a risk, let alone staying in a hotel, take some meals in restaurants, taking cabs.
And if anything happen to their health, they are away from their country.
It is also possible that your mom does not want to worry you but her health after surgeries might not be good enough to travel.
I understand that you are struggling but If you think about it, meeting their grandson involves a lot for them. If you look at it this way, it might feel less painful for you.
I understand the risks aren't nil. I understand there is more risk of catching COVID by traveling than not.
What I don't understand is them not taking the risk, because the risk is never going to go down (COVID will always exist and they won't become more vaccinated) and not taking it means not meeting their grandson.
I guess I'll just have to try and accept they are more cautious than me, to a degree I see as illogical.
My mom's surgery was to her throat and she is fine now.
Please consider the emotional and physical stamina required for international travel right now.
You’re entitled to feel sad and disappointed but I don’t know what you think you will accomplish by playing the blame game or the “but logically......” game either.
OP I had a baby in the pandemic. So hard. She was months old, they’d (my parents) seen her through a window and nothing more...and they moved to another province. I felt abandoned. They insist I visit them and not the other way. It’s awful. I get it.
But your parents have valid reasons and feelings here too. To you it probably reads as apathy. But people are so deeply exhausted by navigating these rules and restrictions. International travel is so much to ask.
Why don’t you set up regular FaceTime sessions
The risk is definitely going to go down. Cases are still pretty high, and it’s also flu season. Just because you feel like the risk is low doesn’t mean everyone agrees. I am in the UK and I am only doing outdoor socialising. I’m double vaxxed but I live with someone who is higher risk (a similar risk level to older people, not high enough to be considered “high risk” by the government but high enough that we want to be careful). I’ll go back to indoor socialising at some point, but I’m being careful. UK had cases rising only a month or so ago, and whilst they’re going down now (at least in my area), the cooling weather means they’ll probably go up again.
Perhaps you're ignorant to Canada's 4th wave that's presently happening? People are getting 3rd shots now here.
>they didn't want to sit in a hotel.
What? They didn't want to travel overseas and stay in a hotel in the middle of a pandemic? The gall on those guys!
That was so unnecessarily rude. Jesus.
Edit: your post history is a whole yikes. Playing the victim in literally every interaction you have with people. I genuinely mean this in a non-condescending way; you need therapy.
So you’re feeling emotionally unheard. Neglected.
Meanwhile they’re not allowed to have very valid emotional fears about traveling in a pandemic, to the UK which was an absolute mess with covid.
The point being made here is that you’re entitled to your feelings which are valid, but you appear to minimize the logistical nightmare that is international travel right now.
Where have I said they had fears?
I asked them why they weren't coming two months ago and they said because they'd have to quarantine in a hotel.
They now don't have to quarantine in a hotel.
Transatlantic flights are hard on the body, even if you are young. Assuming they are over 60, i see why they'd be hesitant to fly to the UK, especially w the current pandemic mess. Yes they are vaccinated but even if they arw vaccinated they can have any sort of medical emergency that'd require hospitalization.
Anyway, i think you are assuming a lot of the whys or why nots of your parents, i suggest you to stop assuming and asking clearly why or when do they plan to visit you or if they even plan it at all. You know, communicating like adults do.
By not asking you are trying to shield yourself from getting an answer that hurts you but right now all the scenarios you are playing in your head (why don't they visit? Don't they love me? Why aren't they like grandma?) is already hurting you so what's the difference?
I suggest you to also look for therapy to learn how to communicate more assertively in general. If your parents were emotionally distant from you, i think its not far fetched to think they wont feel more connected to your child. And thats not good or bad but it is how it is and the sooner you learn to cope w this, the better for your emotional wellbeing.
But that's not the only way travel restrictions have changed; some flights now you don't need a negative test for, and while they are vaccinated, break through infections are possible and at their age, even while vaxxed, that has the risk to be very nasty.
Honestly, it sounds like you have a shit tonne of resentment from their emotional neglect when you were younger, and the "unfairness and unreasonableness" of them not travelling to meet your son is something easy for you to hang all of that on, and a part of you doesn't want to lose it or hear that in this particular instance they aren't behaving unreasonably because it undermines all the historic emotional trauma you have as a child who was constantly reaching out for an emotional connection with your parents and got shut down instead. Sounds like maybe part of you believed it was your fault and now you have a child you know is loveable, because you love him, you were finally hoping to see that emotional connection from them and 'repair' what has been missing with you. But you can't, because the problem is they're shitty parents.
I hate to be the reddit catch phrase but therapy my dude. You need to work through that and as long as you keep hanging your hat on your kid for a reconciliation, you're just going to relive your childhood heartbreak and spend the rest of your lie both resenting them and desperate for their approval, rather than at peace.
Why don’t you visit them?
"Flying with a new born baby, are you insane?!" would be OP's answer.
There’s still a global pandemic going on. People are still dying. Your parents are likely in the high risk age group. Asking them to travel internationally under these circumstances because you need support is very selfish.
At some point we need to process our feelings about our parents and move on. You’re an adult. Focus on your child.
wow. this kind of attitude and then you wonder why your parents aren’t dying to visit you 🙄
If you don't care about the health if your parents or your new born baby, you can just say so. You don't have to make it about me.
I literally answered your post in a respectful way, said I needed a bit of compassion for my feelings, and your response was to be sarcastic.
And then you think I'm the rude one?!?
I guess I find it difficult to offer genuine empathy to a stranger who is unable to offer it to his parents.
Their reasoning for not visiting is such a lame excuse! Visiting your grandchild should mean the world to them as new grandparents! Sitting in a hotel is a terrible excuse!
WTF. Not wanting to spend 10 days closed in hotel in quarantine is lame excuse?
I am all for restrictions and quarantines. But demanding that people go out of way to subject themselves to those or pretending it is nothing is absurd.
You are effectively expecting them to invite themselves into your house. Seriously.
You can't expect them to come if you don't invite them. Also, you say they were unintentionally emotionally neglectful. That is exactly the sort of person that will not figure out that visit might be important for you. They won't figure or understand that, you have to talk about what you want.
I think you need to put this in the perspective of elderly people are still at highest risk of covid.
Travel is difficult right now. My husband is at home 2wks, then out of state/country 2wks, then home, etc etc. It ISN'T easy, even being fully vaccinated. And we have this concern every time he leaves. Then depending on the area, he has to quarantine alone before we spend time together. He's been traveling for work for many years, but recently he's been having panic attacks. He gets treated like shit at overseas airports. Says they treat him like he has the plague. Even when he travels within the US, he has to deal with a lot of stuff. Last flight he had an anti masker soapboxing on the plane in the seat in front. Travel just isn't easy right now. Don't take their behavior personally. You've got better things to do with your time!
You can't expect anything if you don't communicate.
Maybe they're waiting for you to invite them?
Did you ask them?
>so I assumed they'd come
>I was a bit annoyed my parents didn't make plans to come see me after my grandmother's funeral, but I figured they would have if they'd known a worldwide pandemic was just ahead.
>Travel restrictions were lifted at the end of August. I texted my parents about this, and got a thumbs up emoji and nothing since
It sounds like you expect them to know that this is bothering you but you haven't said it. And even if you don't feel comfortable talking about how you feel, have you ever just been like, "why haven't you come to visit?" Or even, "so when are you going to come meet your grandson?"
Dropping hints like "travel restrictions were lifted" or assuming they will come is not clear communication. When people expect others to read their mind, they spend a lot of time feeling really resentful that others can't read their mind.
Read OP's post history.
Alot to unpack in there.
Hm. Yeah. Reading the post history tells me OP has a habit of victimizing herself a lot. Rather than speaking up, setting boundaries, or asking questions, she sits back and builds resentment.
You're right that I tend to stop trying and get frustrated in certain situations.That's down to the fact I feel there's no point expressing myself, because no one will respond, which was basically my childhood. It's hard to change these things. But yes, you're right, and that's what's happening here, though I'm not sure how to change the dynamic. Talking to my parents will get me blank looks and an uncomfortable chair shuffle, and I'll just feel lonelier.
But I don't see myself as a victim. I have dealt with miscarriage, infertility, immigration, unemployment, and a close friend's death. But I've also travelled, married, had a child, have a career I like, and an lucky enough to own my home. Like most people, it's been a mixed life.
>But I don't see myself as a victim.
Maybe not overall. But in your interactions with other people you tend to. You describe these things as though everything is just being done to you and you have no ability to influence the situation.
The thing is, when you start to see a pattern in your relationships, the common denominator is you.
>I feel there's no point expressing myself, because no one will respond
This is exactly what I'm referring to. NO ONE will respond to you if you express your feelings on something? How is that possible? Sure, there's occasionally a narcissist here or there in the world that has no empathy for anyone else, but that's actually pretty rare. So you need to stop assuming the worst of everyone around you. That's actually kind of mean. It's basically saying that you assume all of these people are heartless without ever even giving them a chance to show that they're not.
And it makes me question *how* you're expressing yourself, when you do. Are you doing so with an open mind and empathy and willingness to compromise/see their point of view, or are you just coming at people with accusations and then shutting down when they don't automatically agree with your perspective?
For example, when you have expressed frustration to your parents in the past, was it, "why do you do X?" or was it, "You do X and that means you hate me."
I obviously don't see that as the case with every single person, or even most people.
I can talk to my husband and he hears me. I had a former boss who was very sympathetic when I had to take off whenever my period hit for fertility tests. I have friends where I feel heard, if not perfectly.
But I don't feel that with my parents, a former friend, or my current boss, and I've posted about those. I don't post about the non-problems or the good people in my life.
I do need to learn how to express my frustration earlier. That's always been a battle.
I haven't spoken to my parents about my feelings for years and years, but a few examples of when I used to.
Me: "Mom, brother is playing music insanely loud all day, I need to sleep because of my night shift. He refuses to turn it down. I'm trying to sleep on the couch in the basement, and it's still booming two floors away. I'm exhausted and feel like I'm hallucinating. Can you please do something or take away his internet."
Parents: Well, that's your brother.
Me: My boyfriend of two years just dumped me. I'm heartbroken.
Mom: C'mon. You never really loved him .
Me: It's 2011 and I feel terrible. I can't find a job and my mental health is crap. I feel lost in life. I've lost 20 pounds.
Dad: You should have made better life choices and picked better men.
So in the examples, you show the times you feel wronged. But you never seem to take it to the next step of communication to address that feeling of being wronged or to provide them a chance to remedy it. Or if you do, you didn't include that in your examples.
"Well, that's your brother.""Yes, but I am really struggling. Can you help me think of any solutions so that I can get some sleep?"
"C'mon. You never really loved him.""I know you're saying that to try and make me feel better, but it actually makes me feel like you're dismissing my feelings. This is really hard for me and I was hoping for some support."
"You should have made better life choices and picked better men.""That is really hurtful. I was hoping for some encouragement and advice and it really hurts to hear that you think so negatively of me."
I'm not saying that these responses would be a magic fix. You're not going to suddenly undo your parents' patterns in one confrontation or sentence. But it calls out the behavior instead of you just hitting the initial wall and then building a silent resentment about it.
People can't fix things that they don't know are broken. So if your parents are saying/doing hurtful things, you only have a few options: You can just silently continue to let them hurt you, you can confront them and push to be treated better, or you can cut them out of your life.
And sometimes, that decision fluctuates based on what you've already tried. If you find you're repeatedly pushing to be treated better and they're completely unreasonable/un-open to anything you try, then it's time to move on to cutting them out. But don't stay stuck in the sitting in silence and letting them hurt you phase, because the only person who suffers when you do that is you.
I deeply appreciate you writing this all out. There is definitely more scope for me to do this.
I do think I used to do some of this with my parents, but I found it mostly escalated the situation. They'd just continue to be dismissive, I'd get more and more upset by them being dismissive, etc. When I cried after the BF comment, said I was hurt by her words, she got my dad to put me in my room and locked the door until I stopped crying.
I stopped relying on them emotionally 10 years ago, and my mental health has dramatically improved. There's a point where the costs outweigh the benefits. But I find myself in a hard place now -- wanting to give my son some family, however imperfect.
To be honest, cutting your losses is kind of what I did with this post. Everyone was downvoting me, whether it was my opinions, my feelings, statistics, or even factual information like 'quarantine restrictions changed in August'. It got a bit stupid. Maybe most people posting on Reddit skew young and less likely to go out (they are in Reddit, after all) so they don't understand the logistics of young children and are extra cautious.
Anyways, I spoke to my parents, got very upset, they told me I should go to Canada. My husband got very annoyed with them and said they would need to come here while DS was small. He pointed out they don't have a stroller, a car seat, they live in the middle of nowhere, they would lose their mind if any furniture got stains, which is inevitable with a toddler. They love my husband, so I think they were a bit shook up that he was telling them NO.
We spoke about what they'd need to be comfortable coming over, and my parents said they'd want to be on a plane with fully vaccinated people, which should happen with legislation in November. My dad said he wouldn't want to take a taxi from the airport, so my husband said he'd pick them up. They said they wouldn't want to stay in a hotel, so we agreed to rent an AirBnB because our house is quite small.
If they come when all those conditions are met, great. If they don't, I'll know they just can't be bothered and I can fully move on.
You are not coming across very well here. It would be a somewhat high risk for your parents to travel right now, seeing as they are older.
I understand your feelings to an extent. But the truth is that you have many years ahead of you - you and your child - in which your parents can visit, and you can be involved with them in other ways. While you are currently focused on your sadness - which is natural - I think soon you should start looking at ways to make the best of a bad situation, like looking at video calls and so on. Your parents not wanting to fly during a pandemic is fairly understandable.
I moved abroad from my family, and it's just an unfortunate fact of life that they will be unwilling to travel long-distance for some stuff. I kind of had to accept that when I moved. And these are exceptional times. It sucks, but it is what it is.
> I'm not sure how to change the dynamic.
With your parents, you can't. You can't change other adults. Only they can change themselves. You have to face reality that they are who they are and they will not be the parents you need them to be. They also won't be the grandparents you need them to be.
So start building up friendships and nurturing your new family and chosen family.
But definitely get therapy if you haven't for your childhood because being taught that you can't ask for help or emotional support fucks people up and you need to be able to do that with people who are emotionally available.
Thank you. I know this. I think I'd accepted it for MYSELF, but for some idiotic reason, I thought they'd be different for their grandson.
I'm so wary of therapy. I had some, and after a year, I shared I wanted a hug. I told the therapist I knew he didn't have to, but I was struggling with my feelings. It was so hard to share I wanted that connection.
He refused to see me again, and it was devastating.
I tried to see someone new two weeks ago, but I just sat there thinking, my feelings are going to be rejected again and I could spend that money on myself.
>I'm so wary of therapy. I had some, and after a year, I shared I wanted a hug. I told the therapist I knew he didn't have to, but I was struggling with my feelings. It was so hard to share I wanted that connection.
Unfortunately that was an inappropriate place for that connection. Therapists must avoid that sort of relationship as a part of being ethical therapists.
Therapy is a hard job because you have to take someone's vulnerabilities but you CANNOT be your patient's lover or even their friend. It would be an abuse of that privileged knowledge of your deepest, darkest secrets.
If you'd have told me that he did hug you, I'd advise you to switch therapists.
A therapist should ALWAYS reject anything outside of a professional patient-therapist relationship.
If you’ve gone your whole life previously and are currently experiencing the same reactions, emotional connection (or lack thereof) and general relationship with your parents... then just accept that’s how it is. You’re not going to get this idealized version of your parents you hope or expect. You keep setting yourself up for disappointment if you think they’re magically going to change and behave the way you want. Learn from your interactions and adapt. Change your expectations moving forward.
I just read them.... OP sounds entitled in a lot of her posts....girlfriend seriously needs therapy.
The one with the therapist was particularly disturbing.
FOR REAL. I'm a therapist myself, and there are laws (depending on country/state) and ethical restrictions on any form of physical contact between client and therapist. Plus if you say you are "done" with therapy, the therapist has to discharge the client ASAP for liability purposes, so of COURSE he wouldn't have been able to provide her with a "final" session after SHE SAID she was withdrawing from treatment. It isn't something you can go back and forth with and just attend whenever the hell you feel like it.
In nearly every one, someone else is at fault. Wow.
… it’s a pandemic? You feel it’s safe. They may feel it’s not. Have you talked with them about this?
Also it’s unclear if you’ve told them this is so important to you.
Ask them. I am fully vaccinated and still wouldn't fly right now because of the pandemic.
You know that when everyone on the flight has had a negative PCR test before boarding, statistics show that the risk of catching covid is 0.01%? You’re more likely to get it from going to the shops. Air travel is surprisingly one of the safest things you can do because of all the infection control measures.
I am fully vaccinated and just drove 1600 miles to see my family. I am not elderly. There's no way I would take a plane anywhere right now, much less across the Atlantic.
Just because restrictions have opened doesn't mean that its "easy" to travel. Canada has its own restrictions when returning & leaving. Not to mention the anxiety that most people have developed over this pandemic.
It's really unfair of you to assume that after burying a parent, your parents would be fit to travel.
Now you should have a conversation and ask if they have plans to travel. Which vaccine do they have because some countries limit access with certain ones. Also, what happens if they get sick in the UK, who covers that? Maybe they have a fear of swabs being jammed up their nose.
You should just visit them
OP’s reaction screams entitled. If they’re bothered so deeply by the situation, what are they actively doing to change it
Very entitled. Making all these assumptions without talking to their parents first. The pandemic was hard on everyone. Has she checked in on their mental state?
My grandmother died almost two years ago.
Yes, I should get on a plane with my unvaccinated 2 year old. Makes perfect sense. 🙄
Your grandmother died in Jan 2020. By Jan 2020 there were already covid cases in North America. By Feb 2020 there were already people cancelling or postponing trips. By end of Feb most people in NA were seeing the horror in Europe.
So you expected your parents to bury their parent and hop on a flight a week later?
When my grandmother was dying, I called up every friend I had to help my DH with our 3-month old son while I flew to Canada to say goodbye and support my mom. I didn't bring my son because my grandmother got ill quickly, I needed to go immediately, and my son doesn't have a passport. She didn't ask me to come.
Sometimes being there for family is not perfectly, 100% convenient. But I think it's now convenient ENOUGH that they should be here.
And yes, I think you can start planning a trip to meet your only grandchild a month after a funeral.
OP Im not sure why you're so one sided about this issue. You are really entitled. Just because YOU flew, doesn't mean your parents are obligated to do during a global pandemic. Pick up the phone and call them and ask if they have plans to come. My friend and her one year old baby from the UK have already been to North America 3 times before her first bday next month. So YOU are also making petty excuses for yourself.
Read OP's post history- alot to unpack which gives "bigger picture".
No, they are not obligated.
But it shows I'm willing to go and help my mom during a tough time and she can't do the same for me.
I find that hard to get to grips with.
Sorry OP, but this is crazy.
You realized getting on the plane with your unvaccinated toddler is basically the same thing as having people get on a plane to visit your unvaccinated child, right?
You won't take your child on a plane but you expect your parents to get on one? Im sorry you sound like a real A hole
Because my parents are vaccinated. My son isn't.
But you want them to get on a plane with a bunch of other people and then come see him? If the plane is risky for him, then you're still exposing him to that risk by having them see him directly after being on the plane.
Dude, you parents could catch it on the plane and transmit it to your kid!
So, to be fair:
The UK was on **fire** with covid. I am in Canada and still nervous to visit the UK not due to case numbers but by the sheer poor management of the pandemic in its early days.
Everyone is just getting comfortable again. The idea of international travel is still scary....and still very much discouraged in many places.
I can’t quite fault them for hesitating.
That said your disappointment and feelings of isolation are valid.
Can you set up some FaceTime sessions etc?
Every country in the world is staring in abject horror at the UK and the way we have handled Covid.
You won’t read that in any newspapers in the UK, but that doesn’t alter the fact that our response to the outbreak has been woeful.
If I was in Canada, I wouldn’t want to come here either.
Pretty sure it wasn't every country, given that one was lying to the rest of the world for up to 6 months beforehand, the US have huge anti vax protests and a lot of the others were as hesitant to lockdown or came out too early. The country on the verge of collapse like many others because of being in lockdown and now the whole world is experiencing HGV shortage, electricity shortage, food shortage to some degree or another. The media have only made that worse and lied about situations while people like me worked tirelessly 60+ hrs a week to keep the NHS a float because we were flooded with people desperate for a couple of paid weeks off work while isolating with no symptoms and negative test results
I don't think the UK has handled the pandemic well either, and I wouldn't expect them to come if they weren't vaccinated.
But they are, and that's what I don't understand.
I'm healthy, relatively young, and vaccinated, and there's no way I'm getting on a plane rn.
Vaccination doesn’t mean you’re risk free. It lowers those risks monumentally. But your parents aren’t young you know? And let’s be clear, the mental and emotional scars of navigating this pandemic are going to go deep.
I took a 60min flight across the country (Canada) with my 6 month old and 6 year old a few months ago. It was so incredibly scary and draining that I can’t do it again for a while. You’re asking them to travel for hours on a tiny plane to a country known across the world as “bad at managing covid”.
I get the facts. They likely do too. But there are layers to this. International Travel is a lot to ask.
Have you asked them to set up regular FaceTime sessions?
I used to call them every Tuesday but have stopped in the last month, because I figure why bother, they don't care.
They haven't called me, so I guess that says it all, really.
I think you really need to internalize this point. I’m sorry, but for whatever reason you do not have a reciprocal relationship with your parents, or not one that fits your needs and expectations apparently. The sooner you come to grips with that, the less disappointment you’ll experience moving forward.
Look, you guys are really distant. It's dripping from everything you post. At this point I'm not even sure you would care if they got sick on the way there. Maybe just remaining distant would be the best because the relationship is frothing with resentment.
And you need to really really fix the setting mental goalposts without discussing thing as a parent. You will soon realise kids will absolutely destroy any and all secret expectations you have of them. Without clear communication you're going to end aping your relationship with your parents which I'm sure you don't want.
Ok. You also said they’d like to FaceTime/Skype.
I think the hardest lesson of adulthood is that our parents will never be exactly who we need them to be. It’s painful. But it is something that needs to be accepted, if only
To allow you to move forward. I think it’s time to look at working towards that.
I live in the US, my parents in Canada, and I haven't seen them either. We were thinking of waiting until Christmas next year, so we have more data on the efficacy of the vaccines/whether we'd need boosters.
They could still get it and potentially give it to your infant child.
The vaccine isn’t a magical thing. People who’ve been vaccinated are still dying.
Why would anyone want to risk exposing themselves unnecessarily?
Even though my parents are vaccinated, I wouldn’t want them hoping on a plane to see me and risk getting sick.
If it was just me, it wouldn't matter.
It's the fact they're missing my son growing up that bothers me.
But maybe they think missing this time is worth it so they don’t get sick and die, thus missing even more of his life
But what's going to change between 'this time' and 'future time'?
They're not going to become more vaccinated. COVID will always exist.
There isn't going to be a better or safer time to visit. They are literally choosing to never meet him.
Oh well. That’s just not true. At all. So.
> It's the fact they're missing my son growing up that bothers me.
Imagine how much it would bother them if they came to visit, infected your son, and then _you_ didn't get to watch him grow up.
His chance of dying from COVID, given his age, is 2/1,000,000.
I think that's worth the risk of him having grandparents in his life.
That's not what you thought when someone suggested taking the plane yourself.
You feel free to argue with me as much as you like - it won't get you a single step closer to having your parents visit. For that, you'll have to talk to _them_.
I said part of the reason I'm not bringing him is he's unvaccinated.
The other parts are that he still doesn't sleep, that he's not toilet trained, that I have no annual leave left after isolating 5 times this year, that, quite frankly, I can't afford the 3 heavy duty coats, pairs of boots and countless sweaters I'd have to buy to survive in a Canadian winter, that if rules suddenly changed and I got stuck in Canada my job would be fucked, and ten thousand other reasons.
You don't have to convince me. I'm not the one you want coming to visit your kid.
Well they certainly won't get to see him grow up if they or he die(s) of COVID.
They are being cautious during an ongoing global pandemic. It's unfortunate that it has coincided with your son's early years, but everyone (well, everyone who is reasonable and responsible) has had to make sacrifices. I haven't seen my mom in over two years. It's horrible, but safety is more important.
Honestly I'm a pragmatic person and my thoughts would be, since travel will likely continue to be a reduced and selective option for a while, why not just wait until your child's a little older before making the trip, then they'll actually remember meeting their grandparents.
Because, once you've received the vaccine, the alternative to not 'exposing yourself' is living in your house forever.
Because of relative risks. If you are fully vaccinated, your chance of dying from COVID, as opposed to something else, is 0.8%. Your chance of dying in a car crash, as opposed to something else, is 0.5%. Funnily enough, we all still drive our cars.
Cool! So, pack kiddo up OP. Guess what, at this age he sleeps more than he ever will at any other time. “What’s going to change from this time vs future time”?!? I’ll tell you! He will require snacks and entertainment. Right now he’s easy, he sleeps, he nurses or takes a bottle. Clean, easy. A few diaper changes on the plane.
There’s no risk so why not eh
I get the vibe from OPs responses that the visit is less about seeing her parents and more about receiving their “support” which I’m assuming is mainly financial or in the form of free childcare
There’s a big difference between never leaving the house (your extreme) and trapping yourself in an enclosed space with several hundred other people for eight hours.
Studies have revealed that even people with the mildest forms of Covid have slight brain damage. We don’t know if it’s self-healing or not. We don’t know what the long-term impact is. It’s too soon.
Deciding whether to go a grocery store or visit a vaccinated friend the next town over involves a much different risk assessment than deciding whether to take a transatlantic flight. So they aren't necessarily choosing to live in their house forever. They are, for the moment, choosing not to go to the UK.
Those numbers are an individual's risk of dying from X cause over the course of their lifetime, given all possibilities. Not the risk given an infection, a person's age, health, and activities engaged in (like taking international flights).
Also, it's important to note that death isn't the only risk posed by Covid. Permanent disability is another possibility.
And frankly getting on an 8-hour+ plane ride under the \*best\* of circumstances is a drag. Getting on one that could be a breeding ground for a dangerous virus; having to wear a mask the entire flight; being cramped in a small, enclosed space with occasionally unruly passengers; having to get a PCR test within a certain number of hours before the flight; possibly having to quarantine; dealing with jet lag; and having to reverse the same process on the way home is a huge hassle.
You realise they can still catch it, carry it, be totally fine, but then pass it to your unvaccinated baby? Our numbers in Canada are tiny compare to the shitshow that is the UK.
Your baby isn't vaccinated, is he?
Lol, downvoting statistics
Even if vaccinated some people get sick. I’m sure they love you and your child, but they still may have concerns about getting on a plane
OP, with respect, this is a very ignorant comment. The vaccine offers a lot of protection, but it's not perfect, and they're high risk.
I'm young, healthy, and vaccinated, and I would not get on a plane to the UK right now.
I'm in Canada and we're too busy being horrified by the USA's giving up to really bother with the UK
What did they say when you asked them?
How would you feel about telling them you’d like them to visit?
Are they used to travelling? Have they visited before?
(The difficult thing, under the current situation, is that unless your child is over 18, right now, if you want to visit with your son, he would she to quarantine on arrival, and then can’t travel back to the UK!)
They may be anxious about travel. Yes it’s legal to travel right now. It’s legal to do a lot of things. But that doesn’t mean they feel confident doing those things.
In an ideal world, you’d be able to have a delicate conversation about wanting your parents to visit, and they could discuss why they aren’t visiting. It sounds like that isn’t in the cards for you right now, and that sucks.
Thank you. I feel like your response is very balanced.
I've lived abroad for 13 years, and my parents have
only visited twice, once for my wedding and once when I was pregnant. They don't understand why I left Canada or why I don't want their exact life, basically.
I asked them why they weren't visiting when they got vaccinated in July, and they said it was due to quarantine. So I guess I feel like they were just lying to me, because quarantine isn't a thing anymore.
It just feels like it's all platitudes, and no real emotional depth or support. It's bringing up how I felt for the first 25 years of my relationship with them, which was alone, ignored, and unheard. I emotionally detached in my late twenties because it hurt too much, though I still love them.
It just feels like their refusal to come is cutting the last threads of hope that they might one day wake up and be there for me, and I'm finding it incredibly difficult.
Thank you for saying it sucks
What do you mean by ‘quarantine isn’t a thing’? It’s absolutely still a thing, where I live hospitals are filled to the brim once again. Vaccine or no it’s not a good time to be flying across the Atlantic.
Until late August, people flying in from Canada had to quarantine upon entering the UK. That restriction no longer exists.
Perhaps restrictions are different where you are.
Quarantine on a state or national level is not what determines ‘quarantine’. There are a lot of people still following quarantine restrictions on a personal basis for good reason
I think you're being too literal. Of course quarantining still exists as a general thing in the world.
I'm just saying that, in July/August, my parents' reason for not coming was there were quarantining restrictions if they entered the UK. Those restrictions aren't there anymore.
So if you understand that people can still follow quarantine restrictions even after they’ve been lifted what exactly are you confused about? Obviously they still aren’t comfortable traveling which, neither are you so you have no right to complain
Lucky for us language is constantly evolving to include new meanings. Otherwise gay would still be used to describe an emotion rather than a sexuality
I haven’t berated OP for anything. I’ve pointed out that just because national level quarantine has lifted doesn’t mean people are willing to jump on transatlantic flights which OP should know because they themselves aren’t comfortable with it.
I don’t know what about my speech isn’t conducive considering I haven’t been rude or insulting. I have been straightforward which is warranted.
OP is a grown person, if they can’t handle being told upfront that their expectations here are unreasonable then they probably shouldn’t be on Reddit. I’m not sure why you are choosing to be the tone police but trust me your efforts are in vain
Here in Canada, Quarantine is still a thing.
FWIW, if you want them to visit - tell them you want them to visit, invite them, suggest dates and talk about sleeping arrangements.
They do sound unattached as parents, but you also sound unattached as a child. Either choose to work on the relationship, or realize it won't get better without work.
>Here in Canada, Quarantine is still a thing.
People visiting or returning to Canada do not have to quarantine if they're fully vaccinated, since Sept 7. The UK has been fully open to vaccinated Canadian tourists since Aug 26.
What are you talking about?
Sorry you chose to move to the UK and they’ve visited **twice**
I’m assuming they took on the expense as well.
OP! That is a long trip, an expensive trip......already been twice....yes you are asking a lot.
When is the last time you visited them in Canada
I’m Just going by what she said, she said they are “well off” and the money is not an issue for them.
Twice in 13 years is a really long time.
Honestly I have doubts about OPs reliability as a narrator here. Again it’s not just money, international travel is a lot for some people. And no mention of how often OP visits them
Probably every other year.
I'm sorry. I can tell this really hurts. It sounds like they may always have been distant...but I do think it's worth considering that not everybody wants traveling to be a part of their lives. It's one thing if they were off to Paris once a year or more in the Before Times, but if they were like a lot of people and basically never left the country, even if they had always been close to you things might have turned out this way. As it is, with them being distant? There was basically no chance of them crossing an ocean to make the sort of in-person bond you're looking for. It doesn't mean they don't love you, for what it's worth. It just means they don't have the personal emotional capacity to substantially interrupt their lives to make room for you (and it may be a very substantial interruption...Canada is being very strict right now I think). If they didn't love you, they for sure would not be Skyping either.
If they're regular international fliers, though, it's at least potentially bit more dire (again though, Canada is being far more harsh than usual about travel, and it would still be worth raising the question of them visiting and what that would entail) and I'm extra sorry.
Just because the restrictions have been lifted doesn’t mean the threat from COVID-19 has gone away. The delta variant is still wildly prevalent and new variants are being discovered. International travel would expose your parents to these variants as they encounter people from around the world in their travels. Your parents may not be protected against the new variants depending on the vaccine they got.
Ask them why they haven’t made the trip. They may be nervous to travel. There is still a lot that is unknown.
How would we know? YOU ask them. Anything else is just speculation.
i guess they're pretty old. do you know that old ppl still can catch covid and die even they're fully vaccinated?
But the risks are very low and the alternative is missing their only grandchild's early childhood.
You are vastly overestimating the importance of "missing their only grandchild's early childhood", compared to the continuing, _very real_ risks associated with COVID.
The risk for your toddler, even unvaccinated, is probably the same if not lower than for his vaccinated grandparents.
Plus they are old and you aren't. You could fly to them if it so important for you.
Also the UK is now hitting the Brexit woes .... that's really not an incentive to go there with reports about the food and fuel distribution (and other) difficulties.
You think the risk is too high for your child, but think that your parents should be comfortable with their risk.
Maybe if you keep silently hoping, they'll finally hear you.
>I live in the UK, my parents live in Canada. My son was born in September 2019
Given what happened shortly thereafter it doesn't seem that strange that they've never met him.
>but I'm getting resentful because it's just something else I need to manage
But them coming to visit wouldn't be?
It sounds like you've already made up your mind not to address this in any way, so I'm not sure what type of advice you're expecting.
I think you need to be straight up with them and just ask. “Why won’t you come visit me? I’m hurt that you haven’t met my son. I really want you both here.” That’s all you can do. Quit avoiding the conversation
We're still in the pandemic. I wouldn't be comfortable flying yet
If you are vaccinated, you can still can get COVID. If you are vaccinated and get COVID, you are unlikely to need medical assistance. The vaccine is not a magic bullet, but it so far prevents the worst symptoms from developing.
Canada has had strict rules on reentering Canada. Those rules could come back or be more strict depending on how the Pandemic develops while they are in the UK. I do not even know what travel medical insurance is like right now.
I suspect your parents do not want to be in a foreign country with COVID. They do not want to be stuck in the UK with all the other issues going on with the UK.
I’m not exactly how travel insurance works right now, but one of my friends had to give up her exchange semester because she was told by her school advisor that if she broke her leg or ended up at the hospital for any reason and tested positive for covid, even if in the hospital for a completely different reason, her insurance probably won’t cover the stay and it will be really expensive
Have they traveled internationally before? Did they do so regularly before the panini?
If they haven’t, maybe it’s overwhelming for them to organize, especially if they don’t have passports. If they’re not usual air travelers, maybe it’s the flight length that seems uncomfortably long, given how air travel looks.
Honestly, there could be alot of reasons, perhaps fears that you might consider silly, so maybe that’s why they’re hesitant to be clear? Really, all you can do is ask outright, outline your expectations & discuss from there.
>I was a bit annoyed my parents didn't make plans to come see me after my grandmother's funeral
>I assumed they'd come
Are they typically the types of people who make travel plans easily? Travel a lot in general?
There are personalities that just don't take initiative like what you want from your parents. To top it off, you three aren't particularly close, and you can't even ask them to come directly. I'm not saying it's your fault or anything, but I mean . . . why are you holding so tightly to the idea of them, if you can't actually talk to the people themselves?
Your last line hit me hard. That's such a good question.
If you’re open to some reading, I think you might find the Janice Webb “Running On Empty” books on childhood emotional neglect really helpful. A lot of your comments about your lifelong relationship with your folks make me think of things in them, and I think you might get a lot out of reading them. Cheaper than therapy, too.
My parents live in Canada, and my only sister lives in the US. (I live in NZ but that’s not super relevant). My sister had a child in March 2020, my parents’ first and only grandchild, and they haven’t been able to see her yet. My sister is upset that they haven’t been able to visit yet but understands, and I for one am very happy that my parents have chosen not to travel because even thought they’re both double vaxxed, travel would put them and others at increased risk.
You need to realise that the world is still battling a pandemic and even though your parents may not admit it, they’re likely scared, or at least a bit apprehensive. And they aren’t the same people they were in 2019 when your child was born - they’ve gone through personal health issues, the death of a loved one, and have probably known people who have been sick or died from the pandemic. It’s a lot.
Don’t put pressure on them, and understand that you’re not the centre of the universe. But if you want to understand, you should open up some calm, adult conversation with them. Ask them how they feel about the pandemic and international travel. Ask them how they feel about not being able to see their grandchild. Just ask and listen, and you might get some answers.
There's a pandemic going on in the world
Being vaccinated does not mean it's safe to travel across the Atlantic. Especially if one of your parents is older or has health issues.
Sitting in an unventilated room for six hours with a couple hundred strangers and dry air is a great recipe for a respiratory infection. Oh, and there is the return trip.
Not to mention the ground transportation, hotels, and other incidental contacts...with strangers.
Look, your top immunity after the second Pfizer jab, is about 94%, and it slowly decreases over the next six months. If I told you that taking a long trip had a 6% chance of you contracting a serious and possibly fatal illness, would you do it?
Face it, the world has changed. Those of us who are a little older have pretty much given up on going out in public, at least until the antivaxxers have killed themselves and each other. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but your parents are doing what they need to do to survive.
Alright, so I know it's been 13 hours and you may or may not read this, but reading this post and reading through your post history, I'm getting this - **you are stressed out**.
There is a lot of stuff going on in the world, in the UK, and in your family. The last couple years has seen a shit load of changes for you personally as well, so I know this is going to be hard to really hear and digest, but here it is:
Your parents will never be the unwavering support you want them to be. They have demonstrated that now. They have demonstrated that to you as a child. They will continue to demonstrate it. If they were not supportive to you when you lived with them, it's not going to happen when you are on the other side of the world.
I know there are many, many more layers here than you are airing out and obviously that makes sense, but I mean this in a truly supportive way that is coming from a place of actual concern - you need someone you can unload to complete about all your disappointments, your unmet expectations, your wishes, and whether or not these are things you should continue to hold onto. That person can't be your husband. It can't be your (former?) boss or a friend. It needs to be someone you pay for to help sort this mess out. You need a professional counselor or therapist that can help you develop the tools so you can destress, because you can't keep going on with this dragging your down. Their job is to help you develop skills so you can continue to move forward and have a better wellbeing, and sis, you need it. Your posts sound very stressed out and that is not good for your wellbeing.
All that said, here is what I think you should do-
Stop. Expecting. Them. To. Care.
If they want to care, they will, but you need to stop holding your breath and getting upset when they don't - FOR WHATEVER REASON - want to come out and see you and your son. Maybe it's a fear of being stuck in the UK during these crazy times. Maybe they are afraid they will have to help out more than they want. Maybe they just don't want to be bothered. You need to stop trying to find out why because you aren't going to get closure there.
They are full grown adults. Full grown, fully capable adults.
If they wanted to be more involved, they would.
So you need to really sit down and figure out what life would look like if you stop expecting them to care and focus on how you could make that better for you and your husband and son. I would take this as a learning experience - you know what hurts you. Try to avoid doing that to your son so you can be a better parent.
There’s still a large number of people who die from Covid or have complications from it, even after getting vaccinated.
I live in the UK, my daughter lives in Australia. I used to fly out to visit her every year, but since the Covid thing I've not seen her at all. I'd like to, I miss her, but I'm not risking my health by flying out, even if there was no such thing as quarantine the other end.
Your child is YOUR child. He's the centre of your world, obviously. But your parents may not feel the same way towards him as you do. I've got grandchildren. I see them sometimes but I'm not that bothered if I don't see them for a couple of years - they aren't mine. So you parents may be feeling the same as me, a mixture of 'not sure about this international travel thing, yet' and 'oh well, he's only a baby, he won't even know us yet, let's wait until he's walking and talking'.
Just my perspective.
You will have to ask them to know what they are thinking. But my best guess is that they are thinking there is still an active poorly controlled pandemic, vaccines are not foolproof, and they could be putting other people at risk by acting as carriers even if their vaccines protect them personally. Plane travel, or any travel, is beyond a lot of people’s comfort zones right now, even with quarantines.
I can’t begin to imagine how hard it must be to be raising your son without in person family support right now but this is an unfortunate artifact of the way the world is right now. If you really want to make this happen, you have to find out what their specific concern is and see if you can alleviate it. If it’s logistics, maybe! If it’s general pandemic safety, you just have to wait.
If Skype is too much now that he’s more mobile, tell them as much, dial back to texts and photos for a while, and see if it makes you feel less resentful.
Thank you, I appreciate your response.
When I ask my son if he wants to speak to granny and grandpa, he says no. So it's happening naturally.
What happens when you flat out ask them why they haven't asked about visiting yet? We can't exactly tell you what's going through their heads. I would just ask and see what happens.
Like, it legit may just be oblivious grandparents.
I mean, you're asking them to come to the UK. It's tough., I understand why they'd hesitate.
Did you move away from your home country? If so then YOU created the distance and therefore it’s YOUR responsibility to do the traveling. They are elderly and there is a pandemic and they’re grieving a parental death. Two years isn’t enough time to be over it.
You keep saying they are choosing to miss out on their only grandchild’s early childhood, but if you’re the one that moved so far away then it was actually you that is causing them to miss it.
Until you express yourself without already deciding their response then again, it’s on YOU. No one is a mind reader.
Please read the book Boundaries. It’ll unpack a lot for you.
ETA you remind me of my son, I have to remind him constantly of a saying that it’s not the stoves fault for burning his hands when he touched the stove. And all i have to say is “why is the stove burning ME like this” when he starts to do the thing where he’s the victim of his own decisions. He’ll laugh and then we will talk about it. He’s quite young. Under ten.
Also, my Mother won’t travel. She just wont. So i go to her. I also am the one initiating the phone calls with her. I don’t mind at all. She has her issue’s andI care more about creating possibilities than sitting around whining for something that isn’t going to happen. One creates results the other creates problems.
> I assumed they'd come, despite having to quarantine. Nope. I was quite upset, but figured they'd come once travel restrictions were lifted.
Um talk to them about it? You’re assuming everything
I can understand why older folks are still very nervous about travelling.
Could you not arrange for you and your son to visit them?
No, because OP is selfish
>I have never been able to connect emotionally with my parents (I think they were emotionally neglectful)
>There's no point telling them how I feel -- it will just make me feel worse when they just sit there and stare at me blankly, like they always do whenever I bring up my emotions.
Why would you want this for your son? Should he ever have to wonder if his grandparents don't love him because they lack the basic human social skill of emotionally connecting?
If they want to come, they'll come. Until then, your son doesn't deserve to be put in the middle of having to beg or force his grandparents to wanna grandparent.
I say stop trying and pour your energies into people who reciprocate.
I totally understand as my friend is in the same boat in a way. They live across the country in the USA from my friend (friend lives in New Hampshire, Parents live in Southern California) . My friend had a daughter in July 2019 and was given every excuse in the book as to why they couldn’t visit. My friend has even offered to visit them but they always have some kind of excuse as to why it’s not a “good time”. Then 2020 hits and the pandemic and that became the excuse. Same boat as you.
She is an only daughter, this is their only grandchild. They haven’t shown an ounce of care to visit. They only FaceTime her as well. Their last FaceTime conversation, her parents told her they were talking about taking a trip somewhere (Not to visit her and their grandchild, but on vacation) She finally was fed up and put her foot down and told her parents that if they don’t start showing even a fraction of care to visit and see them, she was cutting them off because the heartache was too hard for her to manage anymore. She told them no more FaceTime calls until they visit.
(She also couldn’t fly at the time due to funds, her son being so young and not good on long car rides never mind a plane and her job is awful with time off). Her parents on the other hand are retired and live well financially. She offered to visit when covid restrictions lifted when he was older, but would deal with work and the financial burden. )
Her parents finally budged A MONTHS LATER and came to visit… FOR only 2 days! it was bitter sweet and my friend is just numb to the whole thing. Her parents visit didn’t really go as she wanted it to. That’s another story.
THIS IS WHAT RECOMMEND!
- Talk to your parents. Tell them how you feel. You have nothing to loose telling them.
- hopefully the conversation goes well and they book a flight ASAP to visit…
- If the conversation doesn’t go well, PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN and tell them that if they can’t show you a fragment of care or care to meet their grandson, then you don’t want to talk to them. Cut communication for a while and let them think about how they have been acting. Turn the tables on them.
- two things will happen, they will ether start to show some needed effort in you and your son and realize they have been neglecting you and your son with needed parental love and visit.
They will accept the no contact, not care and you will get your answer you’ve been asking yourself. You can care and love your family, but if they prove they don’t care after that, then you don’t need them in your life. It will hurt, but why try and force something that’s one sided. It’s like trying to squeeze orange juice from a pine cone. A lot of one sided effort and broken promises.
>we never went to them [grandparents]
This may just be who your parents are. My parents only came once to visit family and it was for their reasons. As a family.", my brothers and I decided to do family reunion once a year. My parents have come to them.
>This all hurts even more because my wonderful grandmother flew from another province, twice a year, to visit my brother and me when we were growing up. We never went to them. I feel like my parents have forgotten this?
when I was growing up, my grandparents never visited at my house. my mom, sisters and I always went to them. this was because my grandma preferred to have people over -- it was just her personality, and we accommodated it.
my sisters and I were incredibly close to my grandma, until her death. that was because my mom took the initiative to foster that relationship by bringing us over, etc. we were much closer to her than my cousins, whose parents brought them over very rarely.
what I'm getting at here is your parents may not feel comfortable coming to you, even when there's not a pandemic. you may have to take the initiative and go to them, if that's something you want and are willing to do.
for the time being, however -- we're still in a pandemic, and even vaccinated people are at some risk. I don't think it's fair to expect your parents to travel internationally right now.
(honestly I don't think it's fair to expect them to do *all* the international travel, even when the global situation is different.)
you've got to communicate with your parents about this.
In order for your parents to understand your situation you need to understand theirs. Why don't you resort to other options, like a Skype or Zoom meetings or something like that? That way both parties are safe in their homes but can see each other.
I get it, it’s a terrible situation. I’ve got a kid that my parent would had never met because they didn’t want to travel so far. So I went with my child at six months and three years old. It sucked that they didn’t make the effort, but I did.
Pandemic puts a whole other layer on this that you can’t be dismissive of. ‘Sitting in a hotel’ wasn’t the ask before it was being locked in a hotel for ten days where covid spread easily. A vaccine isn’t immunity either.
So the question you need to ask yourself is if you’re expecting them to be ok with your reasons for not travelling, then why can’t you accept theirs?
I mean, there could be a lot going on here. Maybe one or both of them are depressed, maybe they have post-lockdown nerves about going out more or even boarding a plane. Maybe they have health struggles they don't want to burden you with.
Simply choose a month, sometime in the future, and say to them, can you visit in \[March\]? I'd love to have you for 2 weeks.
....Jesus Christ you sound like a trainwreck. I'm just guessin' here, but based on the way you're responding to others on this post....like....that's probably why your parents don't wanna visit you.... If you argue this much with strangers on the internet (after saying you don't care what strangers on the internet think) as much as you do in person, that's probably why they won't visit. You need to change this so your son doesn't end up doin' the same... You can break a pattern here, but....idk...doesn't seem like you wanna... My mom was like you and it was super embarrassing seeing her argue with everyone while I was around...I really hope you just argue like this online and not IRL
There have been two people I've argued with, both of whom were needlessly and exceptionally rude to me.
Most other posters simply haven't presented a strong enough argument for me. No one, in 200 odd posts, has adequately explained why a future point in time will be better than this point in time. They've just said this is a bad time. I've pointed out factual information and gotten "U is CRAZY" back. So yeah, I disagree with them.
But as it seems the only way to satisfy anyone on this thread is to completely kowtow to their worldview: sure, I'm a complete trainweck and am exactly like your mom.
Yeah, and those fights were hilarious. You said you were going to stop responding after the other person said it first lmao. You're a trip.
I'm in Europe too. We travel quite freely between countries. If you keep your mask on in crowds and wash your hands frequently, you can totally weather the risk of contracting COVID, especiallyif you are vaccinated. My 68yo mom just left my dad who's recovering from leukemia with me and my brother to fly to my home country and help my grandma move. I have tons of other examples from acquaintances and friends. People travel around for legitimate reasons (including holidays).
You are totally legitimate to be unhappy with their behaviour, those that are calling you entitled leave me wide eyed with surprise.
But you should ask them to come directly. If they still don't come, then maybe you're one of those unfortunate people who don't have good enough parents or that do not match with their parents. That happens, sadly. You can only enjoy your son and keep the door open for them when they'll feel like coming.
Or maybe they have legitimate reasons not to come that you're not aware of, but you might never know if you don't ask.
Travelling in Europe is not the same as the rest of the world. Europe is cheaper and shorter flights. Your one our $60 flight doesn't compare to 9 hours and a few thousands dollars just to cross an ocean.
There's a nephew at the end of that. What if they die without seeing him? I would fly to Australia if I had a nephew. But maybe it's a cultural thing, or a family thing. But I'm with OP. Don't get why they haven't come yet.
Well you can't fly to Australia because its closed since theres a pandemic going on. It's not normal times we live in, don't forget that. Europe opened up well before North America did
As you can gather from my initial comment I'm an immigrant. I flew back to my home country basically as soon as I could. I missed my aunts so much. Why is a nephew not enough reason? I don't get it. There doesn't seem to be even a plan, a date, an idea of if and when they'll come.
I hope OP doesn't say or know but that their parents are at least sad to not have met the kid yet, that they wish they had.
You know if OPs parents get a positive covid test they would not be able to board a plane? Canadian government doesn't advise travel incase they shut down more flights so what if OPs parents get stuck in the UK?
This isn't black or white. North America has strict rules. Canada USA border is still closed
Well you don't get a positive COVID test because you're vaccinated and you can be slightly more careful with your social life before leaving. Like OP said in their reply to me, COVID is here to stay, it won't get much better than this in the next 1-2 years.
I get the fear of borders closing, of course that's a big one. But again since the situation won't drastically improve in the next 6-8 months, maybe it's a risk to take, at some point?
Ya maybe the OP should risk flying with her baby then
How long is your average flight there? What are the quarantine procedures? How many time zones are you crossing?
How many nephews might you never meet if you don't travel now? How many years of his life will you not have known him for? I really don't understand OP's parents and arguments mentioned so far haven't convinced me I should.
Honestly flying 1h45 and airport procedures are already annoying and I'm sure 9hs+ (which I did, but before COVID) are horrible with mask on etcetera. But how is that a bigger nuisance than the pain of knowing there's a baby out there and he's a bit yours and you don't know him?
Don't know what the UK foresees for arrivals from Canada but mainland Europe is pretty nice to vaccinated North Americans, a few days inside (you can quarantine at any adress) and a maximum of 3 COVID tests (before travel, at arrival, after a few days of quaratine). And if OP considers this doable I guess measures for Canadians returning from Europe aren't devastating.
There isn't even a plan or conditions (I.e. we'll come when quarantine is lifted, we'll come when the winter is over). I don't get it.
>How many nephews might you never meet if you don't travel now?
None. I'm an only child.
Thank you, I appreciate your response a lot.
I was pro the lockdowns, and am pro vaccines, masks, etc. But we're now as protected as we're going to be, and COVID will never fully disappear, so I feel the time to shut ourselves away is over. I guess my view is also coloured by the fact a close childhood friend, who had been doing really well for years prior to the pandemic, relapsed due to the stress of isolation and lack of support, overdosed, and died. She was 36. There are costs to shutting yourself away forever.
Maybe my parents are like the posters here. Maybe my parents will never come because COVID exists. I don't really understand that attitude, but the responses here proves it exists.
You're right that I've never matched with my parents. They don't understand me and I don't really understand them.
I guess I can just grieve and leave the door open with the assumption they'll never meet him. I find that so sad, though. It breaks my heart.
Well... with that attitude... go fly to Canada yourself. By all metrics your toddler is unlikely to get COVID. Less than vaccinated old people even.
Just live with it and don't shut yourself away. /s
Right! And OPs mom gave her an inheritance and here OP is crying her parents don't like her because they're older and flying during a pandemic is scary
My parents have always been financially generous. I've been very lucky, in that way.
It's not like my parents are monsters or horrible people.
They've just always been emotionally distant. Just because they were good financially doesn't mean the emotional side was there. People can be good in some ways and shit in others.
Why does everyone assume my parents are scared to fly? The only reason they've told me is they didn't want to quarantine when entering the UK.
Isn’t quarantine at the hotel pretty expensive? How are their finances with retirement? What if you propose paying for half of the costs of their travel?
Let's put it this way. My parents are retired. Last time I visited them, I saw a note my dad had left on the table.
Goal: Save 30, 000 dollars in the next six months.
I think they'll be OK.
1)That stinks, you aren't able to have the relationship you want with your parents and you feel utterly unsupported by them in a tough time in your life.
2) At a certain point you are in this for the relationship you can have and that your child can have with your parents. If that means you have to be a way better parent to your child than you get, well I guess your kid is lucky you will put in the work.
3) My nearly 3 year old is going through a screaming sleep regression, so keep in mind there is not a perfect time for international travel for you in the near term. So yes I laughed at you but only from my own lack of sleep. (Parenting in a pandemic is hard)
4) As a general thing my toddler and her slightly younger cousins love video chats. Ipad and thick rubber case, then she can carry it around and play stuff. Set up your kid with some crayola color magic markers and special paper and they can have a fun drawing game with grandparents. Honestly if they are a dead fish on a video call, are your parents going to be a great distraction in person?
5) Did your wonderful grandmother fly twice a year just because she loved it or because she knew she had to put in the effort because your parents wouldn't?
Again, parenting in a pandemic is hard. The best I can recommend is working with what you have.
Also, toddlers are not great a staying in the frame or responding to the other party but 2/2 sets of grandparents in my testing did not seem to mind. Sometime a well placed "are you hiding?" To cue a pop out is all that's needed.
Thanks for this.
That's a really good question about my grandmother, and I don't know the answer. But yeah, it's entirely possible they came because my parents wouldn't.
First of all: I have deep respect for your pregnancy struggles. My condolences and congratulations.
I’m sorry for your grief in your present conflict. I’m not sure I have any sage advice though.
I was hoping I might ask how your secondary infertility manifested and what you did to resolve it, if that’s not too tender a share.
After about 1.25 years of not conceiving, I went to the GP. It took them about nine months to run tests, but they couldn't find anything. They put me on letrozole for three months, and advised IVF if that didn't work. Luckily I conceived my son in month 3.
I'm sorry if you're going through this. It does take a while to figure out what's wrong, so I'd advise talking to your doctor ASAP if it's been over a year and you haven't conceived.
Do you mind if a direct message you a follow up question?
Dear OP: I feel for you and relate to how you feel about your parents.
My mother has always loved me unconditionally but my father was always cold and used gaslighting and manipulation to get me to do the things he wanted and I never felt good enough around him.
My parents split up when I was young and unfortunately my dad got the parenting right, and my mom could only see me every other weekend.
For a long long time I didnt feel good, in my twenties I had bouts with depression and anxiety, even drugs in the end they nearly killed me. I read a lot of psychology, went to a psychologist but nothing helped.
Fortunately I met a great psychologist two years ago that revolutionized everything in my life.
I am guessing that the problem with your parents run much deeper than that they didnt come to see you newborn? From what I understand from your writing you have never really felt seen, respected and loved by them.
I can relate regarding my father.
Growing up with a parent(s) that doesnt give you unconditional love creates a feeling of «never being good enough» and this spills out into everything we do.
What I tried was «being a good son» by trying to do everything perfect, but even if I got an A I could always have gotten two A’s. Nothing was ever good enough for him.
I also have tried to reach out to him many times, but he only gaslight and puts every problem over on me instead of taking responsibility.
He has the same problem, he never felt good enough from the parenting his parents gave him. But I am here to tell you that it is possible to break the cycle.
This is what I have learnt and work on everyday:
First: you have to decide that you are good enough, start loving yourself. This is something you can decide today and start working on.
You have to start asking yourself what do I need? Then start communicating those needs, but also realize that some people (like your parents) may never give you the support you need.
Therefore stop using them for that purpose if this is the case. Find people that will love and respect you just the way you are.
Neuttalize the ones in you life that dont make you feel good enough, but you have to be around sometimes (like family). You do this by setting boundaries, only see them occasionally, and not share personal stuff with them but only superficial things.
The friends, coworkers etc that dont make you «feel good enough» you just cut out of your life straight away.
Every morning start with telling yourself out loud in the mirror: «you are good enough, you are loved» in the mirror. (This sounds dumb but works)
Also start accepting difficult feelings and talking to yourself with a calm inner voice when they show up. Start talking to yourself with the loving caring voice that your parents never gave you. You have to be that calming undconditonal loving parent for yourself now.
There will come waves with grief, anger, and sadness. But step by step you will start to feel better about yourself.
Feelings are slow, so they need time to heal. But it will become better.
I wish you all the best and hope this could help you.
Sending lots of love and all the best to you and your family.